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Jordan shares his disappointment of Heat Big Three

bucky said:
I just looked up there career defensive stats per game, and Pippen's stats are better. It's hard to judge defense w/o watching both players. Stats don't tell the entire story. The best stat doesn't show up, and that is keeping your guy from even touching the ball.

From the things that can be compared, the only concrete thing we have to go on, the numbers are yours, so I'll concede.

Wow, how about that, an Internet Poster tipping their hat to someone in a discussion!!!
Click to expand...

Defensive Win Shares actually show Sidney had a few absolutely amazing years, however over the course of a 17-year career Pippen was consistently great. Sidney's 1981-1985 is probably the best run of DWS in history.
 
Th3ChosenOne said:
I think he just wants to WIN. Isnt that what its all about?

So you guys are telling me if you had the choice to play on a Really good team that is almost guaranteed championships or play on a team that is good but not that much better than the team your already on after you failed 7 years in a row to win a ring. You wouldnt go to the team where your going to win the most?
Click to expand...

It depends really.

If i want to be the best player in NBA history, I don't take any short cuts. If I'm joe schmo (Mike Miller) I take that contract and I ride it out, knowing I don't have a 'legacy' to leave behind.

No one is pissed LeBron left just to win, most people are pissed he left to be second fiddle somewhere and essentially threw out him being the best ever.
 
Th3ChosenOne said:
I think he just wants to WIN. Isnt that what its all about?

So you guys are telling me if you had the choice to play on a Really good team that is almost guaranteed championships or play on a team that is good but not that much better than the team your already on after you failed 7 years in a row to win a ring. You wouldnt go to the team where your going to win the most?
Click to expand...

But if I'm "The Man", I'm recruiting cats to play on MY team.
 
Th3ChosenOne said:
I think he just wants to WIN. Isnt that what its all about?

So you guys are telling me if you had the choice to play on a Really good team that is almost guaranteed championships or play on a team that is good but not that much better than the team your already on after you failed 7 years in a row to win a ring. You wouldnt go to the team where your going to win the most?
Click to expand...

For a player like Chris Bosh I might buy this explanation..but for a player like Lebron James I don't think it holds any weight. Lebron James was supposed to the center piece for title teams and was supposed to be one of the GOAT...or perhaps even the GOAT one day. Everyone had higher expectations for him than to join a team with two other superstars in some other players city just to win championships. Lebron was/is supposed to win championships as "the man". Wade, Bosh etc were supposed to come to him...not the other way around. This isn't Barkley going to the Rockets in 98, or Malone/Payton chasing rings at 35. This is the guy who was supposed to be the GOAT chasing championships at 25 damaging his legacy.
 
Last edited:
FedEx227 said:
So how can you possibly believe that doesn't take away from LeBron's legacy like you stated earlier?

"Yeah he was the best ever, even though he played second fiddle for 6 years of his prime..."
Click to expand...

Well, straight up LeBron want's to win, just like any other player. If he couldn't win in Cleveland, why would he stay there? Why would you stay in Cleveland knowing you cannot win? They haven't made any significant changes asides from their coach and that won't be enough to go against Orlando and Boston. No one want's to play in Cleveland, just look at Bosh, he said he wanted to play with LeBron, just not in Cleveland. Chicago and Miami presented the best positions for him to win at. If he went to Chicago, he would've "played in Jordan's shadows".

Like I said, I may be a little bias since LeBron is now on my team. But, IMO, it all comes down to winning. Of course, winning one in Miami won't be the same as winning on in Cleveland for numerous amounts of reasons, but he never really had a clear shot to win in Cleveland.

Would his legacy still stay the same if he stayed in Cleveland and not win any titles? Or would people be like "oh, he should've gone elsewhere, like Miami or Chicago when he had the chance because both teams presented him the best case to win."

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, I know his legacy after going to Miami won't be the same, I know it'll significantly change.8
 
Last edited:
bucky said:
I just looked up there career defensive stats per game, and Pippen's stats are better. It's hard to judge defense w/o watching both players. Stats don't tell the entire story. The best stat doesn't show up, and that is keeping your guy from even touching the ball.

From the things that can be compared, the only concrete thing we have to go on, the numbers are yours, so I'll concede.

Wow, how about that, an Internet Poster tipping their hat to someone in a discussion!!!
Click to expand...

I love a good tip drill.
 
Miami Flash15 said:
Well, straight up LeBron want's to win, just like any other player. If he couldn't win in Cleveland, why would he stay there? Why would you stay in Cleveland knowing you cannot win? They haven't made any significant changes asides from their coach and that won't be enough to go against Orlando and Boston. No one want's to play in Cleveland, just look at Bosh, he said he wanted to play with LeBron, just not in Cleveland. Chicago and Miami presented the best positions for him to win at. If he went to Chicago, he would've "played in Jordan's shadows".

Like I said, I may be a little bias since LeBron is now on my team. But, IMO, it all comes down to winning. Of course, winning one in Miami won't be the same as winning on in Cleveland for numerous amounts of reasons, but he never really had a clear shot to win in Cleveland.

Would his legacy still stay the same if he stayed in Cleveland and not win any titles? Or would people be like "oh, he should've gone elsewhere, like Miami or Chicago when he had the chance because both teams presented him the best case to win."

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, I know his legacy after going to Miami won't be the same, I know it'll significantly change.8
Click to expand...

He still shouldn't have been a follower in my mind. He's well in his right to go this route, I have no problem with it, but I've officially stopped considering him to be a potential greatest of all time. He's bumped down a tier, that's not necessarily a bad thing I'm just more or less disappointed.
 
Miami Flash15 said:
Well, straight up LeBron want's to win, just like any other player. If he couldn't win in Cleveland, why would he stay there? Why would you stay in Cleveland knowing you cannot win? They haven't made any significant changes asides from their coach and that won't be enough to go against Orlando and Boston. No one want's to play in Cleveland, just look at Bosh, he said he wanted to play with LeBron, just not in Cleveland. Chicago and Miami presented the best positions for him to win at. If he went to Chicago, he would've "played in Jordan's shadows".
Click to expand...
Which he said he didn't care about....plus him going to Miami is playing in the shadow of a guy still currently on the team and in his prime itself. Much difference than playing in a guys shadow that hasn't been a Bull since Clinton was banging interns....


Miami Flash15 said:
Would his legacy still stay the same if he stayed in Cleveland and not win any titles? Or would people be like "oh, he should've gone elsewhere, like Miami or Chicago when he had the chance because both teams presented him the best case to win."
Click to expand...
I think people would have respected the choice to stay in Cleveland more than this grab at titles in Miami. Even if he goes to Chicago now he is going there to be "the guy", "the man" etc.Going to Miami turns the situation on it's head.
 
Miami Flash15 said:
What would've been worse:

LeBron NOT winning a ring in Cleveland during his entire NBA career
OR
LeBron winning multiple in Miami?

All this 'ruined legacy' talks about him coming to Miami is non-sense, a championship is a championship.
Click to expand...

What's worse is when LeBron still remains championship-less.

Then he'll just look like a joke.
 
Th3ChosenOne said:
I think he just wants to WIN. Isnt that what its all about?

So you guys are telling me if you had the choice to play on a Really good team that is almost guaranteed championships or play on a team that is good but not that much better than the team your already on after you failed 7 years in a row to win a ring. You wouldnt go to the team where your going to win the most?
Click to expand...

For a player like Chris Bosh I might buy this explanation..but for a player like Lebron James I don't think it holds any weight. Lebron James was supposed to the center piece for title teams and was supposed to be one of the GOAT...or perhaps even the GOAT one day. Everyone had higher expectations for him than to join a team with two other superstars in some other players city just to win championships. Lebron was/is supposed to win championships as "the man". Wade, Bosh etc were supposed to come to him...not the other way around. This isn't Barkley going to the Rockets in 98, or Malone/Payton chasing rings at 35. This is the guy who was supposed to be the GOAT chasing championships at 25 damaging his legacy.
 
I know I was. That's fine, it's just a bit shocking. If he's cool being Dr. J then that's fine. I just always thought he could've been MJ.
 
Anthony said:
Delete all of MiamiFlash's posts on this thread and you'd have yourself a great NBA discussion.
Click to expand...

I miss these kinds of discussions. It's been a civil, mature, exchange of points of view. Much better than the usual GIF wars and l u l z.

EDIT: Is "l u l z" automatically replaced with "I'm a Huge Giant Faggot". If so, I like it.
 
Last edited:
red33 said:
damn ur a frontrunner of all frontrunners. Did you use to go by the name airmcnabb on MM?

What happened, Pats were fav team until Gmen beat them?
Click to expand...

i was never on MM, and ive been a Giants fan since i live 20 minutes from the stadium. ive been a Heat fan since the fourth grade, so because my teams are good now, that makes me a front runner?
 
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