Mel Kiper Is A Cocksucker

[Deviant]

Are you sure you're not a Denver fan?

Positive. Victor Cruz is currently the rookie I care about. Giants/Nets/Devils/Yankees fan. My college teams are Clemson and Oregon State, so there are no college ties. I took shots at Tebow when he lost to Alabama. I'm just not understanding why everyone else gets fair treatment and Tebow's being pointed out in terms of his barely started NFL career. It's not because it's Tebow, but more because it's someone who's being made a target for no reason.

 

[FirstTimer]

I don't even know why Russell's name is even being brought up, but to say he wasn't an impressive college QB is retarded. He threw for over 3000 yards and completed 68% of his passes with a 28-8 Td/Int ratio. I don't know about you but that is a hell of a season.


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Kind of ignores the fact that Russell played in a water downed one read passing game. LSU was better when they ran the ball more. If you actually look back at the games his JR season where Russell threw the ball a lot he wasn't all that great, his team lost games, or scraped by. After a mid season loss to I believe Florida LSU started running the ball a ton. Taking the ball out of his hands and making the reads easier.

Hell, Russell wasn't even the best QB in the SEC that season. Woodson from Kentucky was.

 

[ralaw]

Positive. Victor Cruz is currently the rookie I care about. Giants/Nets/Devils/Yankees fan. My college teams are Clemson and Oregon State, so there are no college ties. I took shots at Tebow when he lost to Alabama. I'm just not understanding why everyone else gets fair treatment and Tebow's being pointed out in terms of his barely started NFL career. It's not because it's Tebow, but more because it's someone who's being made a target for no reason.

I can understand your concern, but I'd probably wait a few games in the regular season, where he's showing his ability before I brought this up. What happens if he sucks next game? At the end of the day he played well for his first preseason game, but that's about it.

It's because this site is a cesspool that find it hard to believe that good people exist. Everyone on here was waiting for him to come out there and stink up the joint so they could go on the attack. When he played well all they could do was attack the opposition, even though Brady Quinn who has been in the NFL for a few years now and even started and won games at times looked 20 times worse than Tebow against that same opposition. VSN's relationship with Tebow is the clearest example of "Haters gonna Hate" that I have seen in some time.

I actually want to see Tebow do well and have done so since he was at Florida, because I've always enjoyed his style of play. However, on the other hand I don't get why people are so concerned with people hating on him either. I want to see Tebow do well, but I'd also like to see how you would respond if Tebow couldn't make it and was released from the team.

In the end I don't think he'll be an elite QB who can carry an offense, but I do believe he'll be servicable, lead well and win games (so as long as he has the supporting cast around him).

 

[Senser81]

I don't even know why Russell's name is even being brought up, but to say he wasn't an impressive college QB is retarded. He threw for over 3000 yards and completed 68% of his passes with a 28-8 Td/Int ratio. I don't know about you but that is a hell of a season.


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Maybe I came off too harsh...he was a really good college QB, but he wasn't great IMO, and he wasn't a leader. He also only had one season that was notable. For that to translate to #1 overall pick means, to me, that he was being picked more on potential than performance.

 

[Deviant]

I can understand your concern, but I'd probably wait a few games in the regular season, where he's showing his ability before I brought this up. What happens if he sucks next game? At the end of the day he played well for his first preseason game, but that's about it.

By ability, I mean that he can throw the ball down field, he's hitting targets accurately, and he can make plays. That he clearly has.

Of course the verdict is still out on whether he can play the quarterback position effectively. I don't think he'll be starting anytime soon and honestly none of us know if he's ready to or not. We won't know that for some time. Will he be good? No one knows yet.

However, my point is that Kiper never even said he played well, yet lauded Bradford and Clausen, pitied McCoy, and gunned down Tebow in his comments. That's what is befuddling to me. He came on air knowing that he was going after Tebow and it was clear in his verdict on the games.

 

[killgod]

Kind of ignores the fact that Russell played in a water downed one read passing game. LSU was better when they ran the ball more. If you actually look back at the games his JR season where Russell threw the ball a lot he wasn't all that great, his team lost games, or scraped by. After a mid season loss to I believe Florida LSU started running the ball a ton. Taking the ball out of his hands and making the reads easier.

Hell, Russell wasn't even the best QB in the SEC that season. Woodson from Kentucky was.

So if the above is all true, how does Russell become a #1 Draft pick and touted like Kiper did?

How does a fan recognize the system, his losing/scraping by and that he was only decent when they were running well.

How does a scout/etc not see that?

What do they look at that you and I aren't seeing? Is it just his raw physical talent/build that all that care for?

 

[Houston]

Wouldn't be the first time someone showed favorites in the sports world.

 

[Senser81]

So if the above is all true, how does Russell become a #1 Draft pick and touted like Kiper did?

How does a fan recognize the system, his losing/scraping by and that he was only decent when they were running well.

How does a scout/etc not see that?

What do they look at that you and I aren't seeing? Is it just his raw physical talent/build that all that care for?

Scouts are retarded. A lot of scouts in the NFL have never coached, so they are unable to see the "big picture", meaning they don't have a grasp as to how a player will really fit into their system. I think the Niners of the 1980's did so well because Bill Walsh made his own judgments on draft picks, and Walsh could see how someone of limited physical ability could still produce in his system. The Raiders seem to always draft players with one or two great physical attributes, yet they never really see the "big picture" and they end up with busts. Guys like Russell, Darren McFadden, Robert Gallery, and Hayward-Bey had one or two super physical traits, but they also had flaws that were overlooked.

 

[ralaw]

So if the above is all true, how does Russell become a #1 Draft pick and touted like Kiper did?

How does a fan recognize the system, his losing/scraping by and that he was only decent when they were running well.

How does a scout/etc not see that?

What do they look at that you and I aren't seeing? Is it just his raw physical talent/build that all that care for?

Hindsight.

If Russell became anything of value none of what FT mentioned would have mattered.

This is what happens and is the process. GMs/scouts fall in love with players, they look at tapes see an ability and see potential, they draft them high, they bust out and then people go and look at the tape without the rose colored glasses and critique with the understanding that the player didn't make it. Although I do rememeber a lot of people not liking the Russell pick, because they felt he didn't have it all upstairs.

 

[killgod]

Scouts are retarded. A lot of scouts in the NFL have never coached, so they are unable to see the "big picture", meaning they don't have a grasp as to how a player will really fit into their system. I think the Niners of the 1980's did so well because Bill Walsh made his own judgments on draft picks, and Walsh could see how someone of limited physical ability could still produce in his system. The Raiders seem to always draft players with one or two great physical attributes, yet they never really see the "big picture" and they end up with busts. Guys like Russell, Darren McFadden, Robert Gallery, and Hayward-Bey had one or two super physical traits, but they also had flaws that were overlooked.

I see, would make sense cause I believe that BB has always had alot of influence on the Patriots draft selections and they've typically drafted pretty well over the years.

If this is the case, why aren't more coaches involved instead of landing hit or miss talent from a 'retarded' scout? Or simply, why are scouts even used if they aren't prior coaches and are less likely to get you what you need?

 

[Senser81]

To be fair for the Raiders and any other team. I don't really like calling people out bust until they have play 3 season in the league. It usually takes Wide Receivers 3 years alone to put everything together.

Gallery has been in the league more than 3 years, and Russell has already been released from the team. Even if Russell turns out to be the next superstar, he will have been a wasted pick for the Raiders.

 

[Senser81]

I see, would make sense cause I believe that BB has always had alot of influence on the Patriots draft selections and they've typically drafted pretty well over the years.

If this is the case, why aren't more coaches involved instead of landing hit or miss talent from a 'retarded' scout? Or simply, why are scouts even used if they aren't prior coaches and are less likely to get you what you need?

I think its because the scouts report to the GM, and the GM is also usually someone with no coaching experience. The GM gets his position (usually) by being friends with the owner, and the scouts get their positions (usually) by being friends with the GM. Its like you have an entire separate group evaluating the talent, and they have zero involvement with the utilization of that talent.

Its like going to Best Buy and asking one of their 15-year old employees the benefits of a certain refrigerator model, yet the 15-year old has never bought, owned, or used a refrigerator in his life.

 

[manchild24]

you're just realizing this now that he is a cocksucker? It was funny draft day watching his number 1 guy Jim Clausen slip slide away and the disgust on his face everytime his name wasnt called.

what the hell makes him an expert? I can get a list of draft guys and do the same for ALOT less money then ESPN is blowing up his ass

 

[Senser81]

Yeah sorry, I mainly was only talking about McFadden and Heyward-Bey.

Gallery is a good Offensive Guard though, but for the amount of money and draft slot he was picked he is considered a bust.

Gallery is decent, and he had the size and speed to be a great player, but I think he wasn't nasty enough/aggressive enough to really be a force.

 

[FirstTimer]

So if the above is all true, how does Russell become a #1 Draft pick and touted like Kiper did?

How does a fan recognize the system, his losing/scraping by and that he was only decent when they were running well.

How does a scout/etc not see that?

What do they look at that you and I aren't seeing? Is it just his raw physical talent/build that all that care for?

At the time, even before the draft, there were scouts who questioned his leadership ability, his ability to handle a complex offense base don what he was able to handle or not handle at LSU, etc.

I still remember talking about it at MM and posting some scouts takes on Russell and BBIB coming in and basically calling the scouts racist. The opinion was out there and frankly it's not overly surprising the Raiders took the guy..with their history of shitty drafts.

Hindsight.

Not really. I went back and forth with Nahste about this years ago even before the draft. You can ask him. Nothing I said was "hindsight" because I was saying it before Russel was even picked. I thought at the time Russell best option would have been to go to Detroit where he could sit behind Kitna for a season or so, learn the NFL game and an NFL offense. Oakland was Russel's worst possible scenario. He was going to a dysfunctional shitty franchise, with no offensive line, no real QB to learn from(Garcia had no intention of being a mentor), and a shitty WR corps. At least in Detroit he had some decent WR's a decent OL and a QB in Kitna who has shown he is willing to help young QB's along. Detroit wasn't a fantastic situation, hence why they had the #2 pick, but it was a far better fit for Russel at the time.

 

[Senser81]

I thought at the time Russell best option would have been to go to Detroit where he could sit behind Kitna for a season or so, learn the NFL game and an NFL offense.

Yeah, I don't really understand the thought process of drafting a junior QB and then making him an immediate starter. Making polished, senior QBs immediate starters in the NFL probably isn't the best way to do things, but to ask an unpolished junior QB is ridiculous.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, I don't really understand the thought process of drafting a junior QB and then making him an immediate starter. Making polished, senior QBs immediate starters in the NFL probably isn't the best way to do things, but to ask an unpolished junior QB is ridiculous.

Yeah and like I said, obviously Detroit wasn't a great situation to walk into overall but for Russell it was the best choice of the two by far..if for no other reason than having a guy like Kitna to sit behind who has proven himself to at least be an above average NFL QB who has been willing to work with younger QB's.

 

[Rayman]

Denver fans are becoming with Tebow what Dallas fans are with Romo.

Not even comparable.

Romo had at the very least shown he could play the NFL game at a high level.

 

[killgod]

Yeah, I don't really understand the thought process of drafting a junior QB and then making him an immediate starter. Making polished, senior QBs immediate starters in the NFL probably isn't the best way to do things, but to ask an unpolished junior QB is ridiculous.

You guys are way more familiar with NCAA than I am (none), have any full time NFL QB's come straight in from JR before?

 

[kmanharris]

The guy performed well in his first pre-season action, thus far I don't really understand what you all want from us Broncos fans. When the time comes that he makes a mistake we will be critical of it, I was during that pre-season game thread when he floated one to the sideline that was very dangerous. The hyperbole that we throw out there about him is just a reaction to the unadulterated hate that is thrown his way from almost every non-Bronco fan on the site. The guy has done everything right so far and he's a great guy, I don't know what you all really want from us.

All the hate from the non bronco, non gator fans is because of the ridiculous, over the top love that we have had to endure for the past 4+ years. I don't hate him as much as most. If he succeeds, then good for him. If he fails, well then he is just another bust.

Tim Tebow as a football player and as a person has been rammed down everybody's throats for years now. That is why a lot of people just want to see him fail. If he fails, his name won't be on the ESPN headlines everyday.