MMA Thread

[ThunderHorse]

apparently you've never watched Hopkins or Mayweather fight...

Mayweather is scared to actually fight a boxer, he doesn't fight, you should watch the sport before you quote someone like that.

Hopkins track record is better, but Hopkins style isn't exactly a fighter style either... their both very technical fighters with less then incredible power that have made it off of

A. Running around like a little girl and looking pretty

B. Counter punching like a pro

both are known for having very boring fights because of the lack of actual fighting (trading throws) that takes place in them, they are Pure boxers, they are not fighters.

Mayweather would probably get worked by a MMA guy that could fight standing up if he wasn't aloud to run around like a girl...

I mean, seriously, pick a real fighter before you pick a guy like Mayweather. Hopkins maybe, but I wouldn't doubt that from Hopkins, he only fights when he absolutely has to.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I am a big MMA and Boxing fan, but facts are facts

Guys who dont train to stop takedowns get takendown, dont matter how big and strong you are, you will go to the ground, guys who dont know how to defend submissions get submitted

It gets proven over and over, I have facts, you have nothing

The fact that your ignoring the greatest fighting move of all time tells me enough...

if someone has that move and has perfected it, as most great boxers have, it doesn't matter what you do.

 

[Liquidrob]

apparently you've never watched Hopkins or Mayweather fight...

Mayweather is scared to actually fight a boxer, he doesn't fight, you should watch the sport before you quote someone like that.

Hopkins track record is better, but Hopkins style isn't exactly a fighter style either... their both very technical fighters with less then incredible power that have made it off of

A. Running around like a little girl and looking pretty

B. Counter punching like a pro

Mayweather would probably get worked by a MMA guy that could fight standing up if he wasn't aloud to run around like a girl...

I mean, seriously, pick a real fighter before you pick a guy like Mayweather. Hopkins maybe, but I wouldn't doubt that from Hopkins, he only fights when he absolutely has to.

lol, you are a clown

so who are these elite boxers that will work all these MMA fighters?

PBF is undefeated a HOF boxer, but he doesnt 'fight', so thats out the window, Bernard is just to technical to win these fights

Sorry man, you're right, what was I thinking picking some of the best boxers in the last 10 years, my bad

 

[calgaryballer]

...I could have sworn I agreed with the fact that if a boxer was taken to the ground it was over...

your problem is you believe that apparently all MMA guys have chins like James Toney and are just impossible to knock out. I constantly see these guys getting knocked out, even the best ones.

I don't think anyone believes that. I think we believe that MMA guys train enough boxing/striking to avoid getting KOed, especially when they will likely be waiting for a change for a takedown

I simply stated, if the fight doesn't go to the ground it doesn't happen, not every street fight goes to the ground, and for guys that have great jabs like the best boxers too, I don't care what guy you grab from MMA, they aren't getting within 2 feet of the guy without getting planted with 3 or 4 knock out caliber hits...

Just because the street fights you see in real life don't go to the ground, doesn't mean a fight between an MMA fighter and a boxer won't. Most MMA guys are bright enough to know their chances on the fight are much reduced compared to those on the ground. Trust me, whenever it happens, the MMA fighter will have him on the ground in two seconds.

And you seem to base your assumptions on the fact these guys are going to be able to fire off punches with no worries. Worldclass K-1 kickboxers, guys who have dominated Muay Thai comps, etc aren't KOing people left and right when guys come in for takedowns. I don't think boxers would somehow be more succesful than those guys

btw, Boxing makes WAY more money then MMA, it'd be pointless to fight in MMA and make less money not to mention be put into a different world of fighting.

Irrelevant.

I'm not saying it takes anything less to be an MMA fighter, granted I'd rather fight a boxer then an MMA guy, but what I am saying is, its ignorant to sit here and think that an MMA guy is going to be as fast and as strong as a good boxer and just be able to dominate them however they want.

They are going to be as fast and as strong. A guy like GSP is a freak athlete. If he fought a 170 lb boxer, he is going to have the same 20 lb weight advantage he does in the UFC. He won't have the same striking abilities, but his wrestling will be dominant

yea, if its on the ground the MMA guy will more then likely dominate, chances they get them to the ground without getting planted so many times they can't see, are highly unlikely though.

I'd say the chances they get them to the ground without getting pummelled is 90-10 in their favor

sorry if that upsets you, I can see your a huge fan of the sport, but sometimes its better to look at things realistically... you should try it.

Answers above. I think you should watch more MMA (and other combat sports in general) before spouting off this stuff

 

[Liquidrob]

The fact that your ignoring the greatest fighting move of all time tells me enough...

if someone has that move and has perfected it, as most great boxers have, it doesn't matter what you do.

you know zero about fighting

boxers perfect there 'moves' against other boxers, they dont train it against a guy shooting a double leg, they dont perfect it against someone clinching and kneeing you, they dont perfect it against everything that is evolved in a fight

you know nothing about fighting and what actaully happens, I'm sorry to break it to you

 

[ThunderHorse]

lol, you are a clown

so who are these elite boxers that will work all these MMA fighters?

PBF is undefeated a HOF boxer, but he doesnt 'fight', so thats out the window, Bernard is just to technical to win these fights

Sorry man, you're right, what was I thinking picking some of the best boxers in the last 10 years, my bad

you did pick the best pure boxers...

I really see now that you don't actually watch boxing, you'd understand what I was saying otherwise.

its like me picking Tito ortiz and Kevin Randleman and saying they're the best to ever fight in the sport.

 

[Liquidrob]

you did pick the best pure boxers...

I really see now that you don't actually watch boxing, you'd understand what I was saying otherwise.

its like me picking Tito ortiz and Kevin Randleman and saying they're the best to ever fight in the sport.

pick a fucking boxer! lol, I dont care, pick who you want, I'm giving you facts, I'm giving you quotes and you are coming up with make believe shit

 

[ThunderHorse]

you know zero about fighting

boxers perfect there 'moves' against other boxers, they dont train it against a guy shooting a double leg, they dont perfect it against someone clinching and kneeing you, they dont perfect it against everything that is evolved in a fight

you know nothing about fighting and what actaully happens, I'm sorry to break it to you

my bad...

so MMA are immune to the incredible speed and punching power of professional boxers, they are so fast that it doesn't matter what a boxer does, whether they have the jab to keep anyone away or the footwork to move.

MMA fighters are incredible athletes, incredible fighters, and I stated, that if, and more likely, when, a MMA fighter manages to get a boxer to the ground, more then likely it would be over.

but I would really, really, honestly and truly, love to see the guy that got close enough to Vitali Klitscho, hell, even his brother... these guys are trained to jab and move, jab and move, and jab and move, and hell, once more, jab and move... they know how to keep themelves from getting close to anyone.

maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, I guess the MMA guy could crawl around on the floor like a dog until he managed to get to their knees and do something.

so, I'm wrong, you win...

I had forgotten how defensive the MMA cats get when someone questions their logic...

but in reality, its like comparing the NFL and rugby, they're two different things, appreciate them for what they are, when you mix the worlds, its purely speculation.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Here's what I don't get about the "boxers would destroy any MMA fighter" arguement... If its so easy and certain, why doesn't it happen? Yes, top boxers make more than top MMA fighters right now, but the mid-level and lower guys in boxing aren't getting rich. If its so easy for a boxer to tear apart an MMA fighter, why don't some mid-level boxers making $50k a fight make the jump to MMA, train for a few weeks so they know everything this is to know about takedown defense, and make an easy buck by destroying some average MMA fighter like Fedor Emelianenko or Georges St. Pierre? I mean, its so fucking obvious what would happen and it would be so easy for the boxer, but I just don't get why it doesn't happen all the time?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Here's what I don't get about the "boxers would destroy any MMA fighter" arguement... If its so easy and certain, why doesn't it happen? Yes, top boxers make more than top MMA fighters right now, but the mid-level and lower guys in boxing aren't getting rich. If its so easy for a boxer to tear apart an MMA fighter, why don't some mid-level boxers making $50k a fight make the jump to MMA, train for a few weeks so they know everything this is to know about takedown defense, and make an easy buck by destroying some average MMA fighter like Fedor Emelianenko or Georges St. Pierre? I mean, its so fucking obvious what would happen and it would be so easy for the boxer, but I just don't get why it doesn't happen all the time?

That's like telling the average Rugby players to go play in the NFL for minimum salary, you'd make more doing it that way.

A. Love of the sport, most don't purely fight because of the money.

B. (this should be the obvious one) they are better at boxing then they could ever be at MMA... why go and get yourself fucked up at something you have no training for... the only boxers MMA is going to pull are guys like Ray Mercer, washed up boxers who are looking for a buck.

 

[Liquidrob]

my bad...

so MMA are immune to the incredible speed and punching power of professional boxers, they are so fast that it doesn't matter what a boxer does, whether they have the jab to keep anyone away or the footwork to move.

MMA fighters are incredible athletes, incredible fighters, and I stated, that if, and more likely, when, a MMA fighter manages to get a boxer to the ground, more then likely it would be over.

but I would really, really, honestly and truly, love to see the guy that got close enough to Vitali Klitscho, hell, even his brother... these guys are trained to jab and move, jab and move, and jab and move, and hell, once more, jab and move... they know how to keep themelves from getting close to anyone.

maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, I guess the MMA guy could crawl around on the floor like a dog until he managed to get to their knees and do something.

so, I'm wrong, you win...

I had forgotten how defensive the MMA cats get when someone questions their logic...

but in reality, its like comparing the NFL and rugby, they're two different things, appreciate them for what they are, when you mix the worlds, its purely speculation.

its not a question of power, speed or athletism

on average I would say the boxers are faster, stronger, etc...they have a deeper talent pool which I already stated, have a better amateur system, etc...

but when you dont train to stop a takedown, you wont, when you dont train in subs, you get subbed

having boxing 'footwork' just doesnt stop a takedown, you need to train to stop it, you need to learn to sprawl, you need to understand the distance to stop a takedown, you need know how to move your hips, you need clinch training , you need the proper techniques, you need so many things and nothing in a boxers training pretains to takedowns

you cant jab a doubleleg, it just happens to fast, guys can shoot from deep, you cant just sidestep a takedown, you have to understand it

I dont get defensive, I am not just a 'MMA cat', I have been watching boxing for longer than MMA, I have trained many styles, trained boxing, trained with boxers, kickboxers, thia boxers, MMA, etc...

I always said the next evolution in MMA will be the boxer who can learn to stop takedowns, has cross training, etc...because boxing has the best punching going, thats what they do, but adapting it is the key

Kinda like what Cro Cop did for Kickboxing in his good run of a couple years ago

 

[EmpireWF]

Put Demian Maia in a ring/cage with a good pro boxer and I would love to see what happens.

Who thinks Maia would quickly take that sucker down and do what he does? A boxer would probably have one good chance to lay a solid shot on him before he finds himself on his back.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

The most (in)famous case was Ali and Antonio Inoki. Sure the rules were lopsided against Inoki but Ali couldn't do anything to him through 15 rounds.

that match was so fixed but inoki's leg kicks destroyed ali. ali said his legs were never the same after that fight

 

[Bigpapa42]

That's like telling the average Rugby players to go play in the NFL for minimum salary, you'd make more doing it that way.

A. Love of the sport, most don't purely fight because of the money.

B. (this should be the obvious one) they are better at boxing then they could ever be at MMA... why go and get yourself fucked up at something you have no training for... the only boxers MMA is going to pull are guys like Ray Mercer, washed up boxers who are looking for a buck.

Sure it is. And if someone was claiming that it would be obvious that rugby players would dominate in NFL football, as you are with boxers in MMA, then I would say they should be doing it.

A. Don't kid yourself, any professional sport becomes about the money. No matter how much you love the game or the sport, there's a reason guys aren't choosing to do it for free. If it wasn't about the money, we would never have to worry about seeing big boxing matches get scuttled because of money, but it happens. It might not be the primary force behind every fight, but it is behind many.

B. Well, you claim that the boxer would obviously win an MMA fight because their hand speed, jab, and footwork would nullify any other skills the MMA fighter might have, so why wouldn't they try it? This may come as a shock to you, but many fighters are - as many professional athletes in any sport - very competitive. They like to challenge themselves and prove themselves. Its why you see world class jiu jitsu guys move into MMA, MMA fighters into boxing and kickboxing, and so on. Why would this apply to other forms of combat sports but not boxing? So it wouldn't necessarily be about the "easy buck", but also the chance to prove themselves. Or are you going to claim that boxers are so pure of their love for their sport that they wouldn't be tempted by sure base urges?

 

[EmpireWF]

that match was so fixed but inoki's leg kicks destroyed ali. ali said his legs were never the same after that fight

As I understand it, it was suppose to be a fix but Ali got scared and it was a shoot, hence the fact that absolutely nothing happened besides Inoki kicking him.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Sure it is. And if someone was claiming that it would be obvious that rugby players would dominate in NFL football, as you are with boxers in MMA, then I would say they should be doing it.

A. Don't kid yourself, any professional sport becomes about the money. No matter how much you love the game or the sport, there's a reason guys aren't choosing to do it for free. If it wasn't about the money, we would never have to worry about seeing big boxing matches get scuttled because of money, but it happens. It might not be the primary force behind every fight, but it is behind many.

B. Well, you claim that the boxer would obviously win an MMA fight because their hand speed, jab, and footwork would nullify any other skills the MMA fighter might have, so why wouldn't they try it? This may come as a shock to you, but many fighters are - as many professional athletes in any sport - very competitive. They like to challenge themselves and prove themselves. Its why you see world class jiu jitsu guys move into MMA, MMA fighters into boxing and kickboxing, and so on. Why would this apply to other forms of combat sports but not boxing? So it wouldn't necessarily be about the "easy buck", but also the chance to prove themselves. Or are you going to claim that boxers are so pure of their love for their sport that they wouldn't be tempted by sure base urges?

Your picking a fight for no reason...

please provide a quote where I specifically said Boxers would dominate in MMA... none the less where I said boxers would dominate in a street fight, which was the original argument. truth is I never said boxers would dominate in either, I simply said to believe that a MMA fighter wins 99% of the time is Naive.

if it was ALL about money, you wouldn't see boxers going through 20 - 30 fights before the real cash started coming in...

obviously money has a lot to do with the sport, but it has a lot to do with any professional sport. don't underestimate the fact that some people can't just give it up, take Ali for example, he was fighting long past his prime, and many say he should have stopped fighting completely after Ali - Frazier 3 (Thrilla in Manilla), Ali sure as hell wasn't broke. nor was George Foreman when he came back and won the heavyweight title at 45, nor is James Toney who is in his 40's yet continues to fight for no other reason then he wants to be heavyweight champion of the world, Vitali Klitscho held a position in office for his country but decided to come back to boxing, I doubt he has money problems.

I'm not saying $ isn't a big part of the sport, it is a big part of every professional sport, whether it be Football, Basketball, or Boxing... but MMA and Boxing are completely different when you start talking money.

for example, I saw a video a while back saying that Chuck Lidell had a main event fight where he was paid 250,000K. there's undercards for boxing matches that more then that. which brings up the point... why would you switch sports to something your not as good at, not to mention, even if you ended up being the best in it, you wouldn't make any more $ then you are now? switching to MMA would be one of the dumbest things a boxer could do, for both reasons.

 

[Bigpapa42]

maybe if the MMA guy manages to get a hold of him... otherwise, a good boxer's hands are so fast, much faster then ANY MMA guy's hands, that buddy would be asleep on the floor before he could even lunge for a take down, and that's no joke, Boxer's hands are so fast, and so freakishly powerful, not to mention the speed they have, the only chance an MMA guy would have is getting buddy on the ground, and most boxer's move their feet so well and are so fast that its not like buddy is going to open up and go for a takedown without getting tagged 3 or 4 times in the face. and whiffing after the boxer moves.

So you're saying that the only possible chance an MMA fighter has is to go to ground... and that's its going to be very difficult for them to get the boxer to the ground.

If you were not trying to say that a boxer in an MMA fight has a significant advantage over the MMA fighter, then please clarify.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I couldnt even read all of this cause its like someone who wont give up an argument that really cant be won...

 

[Steel Mamba]

lol @ Mayweather running around like a little girl. It sounds like you're the one that doesn't know boxing. Mayweather is one of the most technically sound fighters in the sport.

 

[ThunderHorse]

So you're saying that the only possible chance an MMA fighter has is to go to ground... and that's its going to be very difficult for them to get the boxer to the ground.

If you were not trying to say that a boxer in an MMA fight has a significant advantage over the MMA fighter, then please clarify.

you didn't do much to help your cause there...

First, clarify where I said they were fighting in an MMA fight.

Second, I said what I said to put the argument out that its also Naive to believe that a boxer is utterly defenseless against a MMA fighter, which was being insinuated.

I'm sorry I find it stupid that an MMA fighter is going to dominate in a street fight every time because he can tackle a boxer. I guess its completely irrational to think that a boxer doesn't have a chance in a fight because they hit harder or they have good footwork.

This is what I don't understand, no where did I say that a boxer wins or dominates in a fight, even in your quote, I never said a boxer dominates in an MMA match (as your trying to say) nor do I say the dominates in a street fight (which was what the original debate was about before you started making up things).

I don't even think a boxer wins 5 times out of 10 in a street fight against an MMA guy, but I simply believe its ignorant to think that 95%+ of MMA fighters would beat boxers in a street fight.