MMA Thread

[Kuzzy Powers]

I think for a marketing stand point in the UFC, the big money fight is always more important than just the big name being marketed.

I was referring more towards developing of new stars tho. Altho I still think Dana would love for Chuck to be more marketable, hes just not that stature of fighter anymore.

 

[Steel Mamba]

I was referring more towards developing of new stars tho.

Which is the same as boxing to an extent. In some cases they make favorable matches for certain fighters, but like I mentioned before they do even better by creating win/win situations. And again eventually these guys are going to fight top comp, so to me it's not so much a big deal who they start out fighting. Everyone will work their way up the ranks, no ones hand gets held every step of the way.

Altho I still think Dana would love for Chuck to be more marketable, hes just not that stature of fighter anymore.

Exactly, so this isn't similar to the WWE and it's only natural that you hope your biggest star continue to be just that. I'm sure the NBA wishes MJ could have played 20 strong years.

 

[Liquidrob]

You are not getting it, the UFC is real, the WWE is not we all understand that (besides Kuzzy, lol), but the UFC uses more of the WWE business model than say boxing, they control a lot and do some WWE type things

Of course in a legit sport like the UFC you have to fight the best at some point and win and it doesnt always work out like they want it to, etc...but the UFC 'scripts' the match ups and makes them appealing and controls who fights who for the most part and will try and build up guys and how they control the fighters

the UFC businees model and the way they conduct it is more like the WWE than Boxing, I dont see why you guys cant see that, its not 'bad', its just how it is

 

[Liquidrob]

But, it's not the same for reasons stated earlier. You're right though and prove my point in that a WWE star must appeal to the crowd in order to become a star and be succesful. Well, again who in the UFC appeals to the crowd better than Chuck Liddell? No one, he was their biggest star and attracted more fans than any other fighter in the UFC. So, if the UFC was anything like the WWE Chuck Liddell would still be champ since he meets the WWE's criteria in that the fan base loves him. The UFC would be feeding him cans, not having him fight guys like Rampage, so Chuck could continue to bring them in more money than any other fighter would be capable of. There's no ploy to the UFC like there is with wrestling. It doesn't go down that way though since this is a sport, so the marketing has to be adapted to reflect an actual sport.

Actually, Chuck is a good example on both sides, the UFC was building Tito up big time, he had the charisma, look, etc...and was the UFC cash cow, they fed him some less than stellar guys to make tito seem like a beast, a couple guys were pretty much 185ers that Tito smashed and an old Ken, while that was happening Chuck was KOing better guys than Tito and than finnally wanted Tito to fight

The UFC and Tito had other plans, they would go to book Tito vs Ken II when Chuck was the guy Tito should have fought, Chuck even kept busy by fighting a very tough Babulu at the the time

Finally Tito and Chuck fought and Chuck got a big win and took on the money maker title, but dont get it wrong, the UFC was pumping up Tito all those years before Chuck because of Titos personality and Chucks lack of charisma, Chuck had to KO a shit load of people in order to get a shot and Tito actually already lost to Randy before they even make the first Tito/Chuck fight

 

[Liquidrob]

Also, look at Okami, how many guys does he have to beat to get a shot?

he is 7-1 in the UFC with his only loss being a decision to Rich which some poeple thought he could have won, the UFC keeps putting him on the undercard or wont give him a high profile fight

The UFC does not want him to beat And1, instead the UFC gives him James Irvin, Cote and Thales to try and make highlight reel KO's which didnt work out

 

[Steel Mamba]

Also, look at Okami, how many guys does he have to beat to get a shot?

he is 7-1 in the UFC with his only loss being a decision to Rich which some poeple thought he could have won, the UFC keeps putting him on the undercard or wont give him a high profile fight

The UFC does not want him to beat And1, instead the UFC gives him James Irvin, Cote and Thales to try and make highlight reel KO's which didnt work out

BS. Dana already said Okami is getting the next title shot at 185.

 

[Liquidrob]

BS. Dana already said Okami is getting the next title shot at 185.

umm, I thought the winner of hendo/bisping or nate/maia got the next shot and all the vitor talk now

they dont want okami to fight silva and the funny part is okami would have brought fight than cote and thales dd

 

[BigBiss]

But, it's not the same for reasons stated earlier. You're right though and prove my point in that a WWE star must appeal to the crowd in order to become a star and be succesful. Well, again who in the UFC appeals to the crowd better than Chuck Liddell? No one, he was their biggest star and attracted more fans than any other fighter in the UFC. So, if the UFC was anything like the WWE Chuck Liddell would still be champ since he meets the WWE's criteria in that the fan base loves him. The UFC would be feeding him cans, not having him fight guys like Rampage, so Chuck could continue to bring them in more money than any other fighter would be capable of. There's no ploy to the UFC like there is with wrestling. It doesn't go down that way though since this is a sport, so the marketing has to be adapted to reflect an actual sport.

that was right in the middle of Chucks redemption tour right? were he was beating every one that had beat him befor. Rampage fliped the script and FC had a charismatic black man as there top champ. UFC always seems to be in Win Win possistions, if a match is not win win we wait on it or the losser gets cut it seems.

 

[Liquidrob]

uhh

cant remember if it was actually signed, but than he gets put on the undecard to fight lister and than dan miller? sounds like they are really pusing okami, lol

the dude is 7-1 with a decision loss to rich and they want him to fight on the underacrd and against dan miller, please

 

[Steel Mamba]

cant remember if it was actually signed, but than he gets put on the undecard to fight lister and than dan miller? sounds like they are really pusing okami, lol

the dude is 7-1 with a decision loss to rich and they want him to fight on the underacrd and against dan miller, please

Double standard???? Anderson gets easy opponents and the UFC is holding his hand and molding him. Okami gets easy opponents and the UFC is trying to keep him down.

 

[Steel Mamba]

that was right in the middle of Chucks redemption tour right? were he was beating every one that had beat him befor. Rampage fliped the script and FC had a charismatic black man as there top champ. UFC always seems to be in Win Win possistions, if a match is not win win we wait on it or the losser gets cut it seems.

Yep, exactly. It's all about the win/win situations with the UFC, which is different than the WWE approach. I mean really the debate should stop at one being scripted and the other not, because of that factor the approach has to be different.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yep, exactly. It's all about the win/win situations with the UFC, which is different than the WWE approach. I mean really the debate should stop at one being scripted and the other not, because of that factor the approach has to be different.

LOL!

The approach is EXACTLY the same: to get people to pay to watch A fight B.

Fake/real has ZERO to do with it. MMA & wrestling are the same damn thing. One is worked, one isnt. That's it. Both are about getting you to believe "this guy" hates "that guy", and hopefully you'll pay to see them fight.

The best MMA promo guys all learned from being WRESTLING fans, and cut wrestling promos to build fights....Tito, Frank, Diaz, Rampage (who idolized Junk Yard Dog)....these guys all WORK THE MARKS just like wrestlers do, except in this case, the uppity MMA fans are THE MARKS. You know, because MMA is real.

Dana White shows no respect to any other promoter, except one. Vince McMahon. He never bad mouths McMahon, and tells people all the time how much he admires him, and it's crystal clear he even patterns himself after him. And McMahon is the closest thing that White has to PPV competition.

MMA & wrestling have far more crossover fans than MMA & boxing. The entire UFC explosion can partly be attributed to TUF 1 having WWE RAW as it's lead in. All those "marks" left Spike on after wrasslin' was over, and saw a show that was designed and booked just like...you guessed it, pro wrestling:

It had characters & storylines...
Chris Leben, heel. Stephen Bonner, babyface. Luidine Sincaide, jobber. Diego Sanchez, no nonsense killer. Sam Hogar, turned heel when he became a theif.

And don't get me started on Japan. If it wasnt for PRO WRESTLING legend Antonio Inoki, PRIDE would have never existed, and the sport wouldnt have boomed in Japan. MMA started in the early 90's on PRO WRESTLING shows, and groups like Pancrease & UWFI took it to another level. And guess who led the charge in Pancrease? Former pro wrestlers like Ken Shamrock, who WORKED FIGHTS to build up Bas Rutten and Frank.

Look at the MMA names who have also done pro wrestling....Ken Shamrock, Don Frye, Bob Sapp, Josh Barnett, Tank Abbott, Sakuraba, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Daniel Puder, Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Sylverter Terkay, Kristof Synzok (or however you spell that shit), Tito Ortiz, Dan Severn, Minowaman...I bet it would blow your mind that close to 100 former UFC fighters at some point were pro wrestlers. Why is the crossover so prevelent? Because it's the same thing. Both sides "get" that.

Another similarity, is you can't build a star in either sport without TV. Check out UFC buyrates pre TUF. Sub 100,000. Fedor would be embarrased. In both cases, TV builds stars, and it has very little to do with skill. Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva can't draw flies. Washed up Chuck vs. Kimbo Slice would outdraw just about anything. Brock Lesnar drew 50,000 buys for K1 with no TV build. He's the sports biggest draw with UFC.

There are elements of pro wrestling everywhere you look in MMA. It's the same business model, right down to every crossed T and dotted i. Draw a big house, draw PPV buys, and keep building stars. It's silly to deny it.

 

[BigBiss]

Yep, exactly. It's all about the win/win situations with the UFC, which is different than the WWE approach. I mean really the debate should stop at one being scripted and the other not, because of that factor the approach has to be different.

WWE storytelling is shit right now. but Wrestling as all about the win/win as well. after a match both men should gain something.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

You are not getting it, the UFC is real, the WWE is not we all understand that (besides Kuzzy, lol), but the UFC uses more of the WWE business model than say boxing, they control a lot and do some WWE type things

Are you serious with this? I know you're a fucking meathead but you cant be this moronic..

 

[Steel Mamba]

Grffin doesn't sound too confident.

“I try to tell the truth and use a little humor to talk about how I really feel. Like if I think you’re a [expletive] idiot, I’ll try to tell you in a funny way. I’m kind of kidding, but there’s also some truth to it…. I’m probably going to get hurt, if not die. This guy knows how to fight. The good news is, if I die, this book will sell a lot more copies and be worth more.”

 

[calgaryballer]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrcCXBEeiRA[/media]

Hellboy. Some of the sickest knee KOs around. I love this guy

 

[Liquidrob]

Are you serious with this? I know you're a fucking meathead but you cant be this moronic..

its ok that you think john cena or any WWE guy would be a top contender if he switched to MMA, stay strong to your believes, no one can take that away from you

 

[Liquidrob]

Grffin doesn't sound too confident.

“I try to tell the truth and use a little humor to talk about how I really feel. Like if I think you’re a [expletive] idiot, I’ll try to tell you in a funny way. I’m kind of kidding, but there’s also some truth to it…. I’m probably going to get hurt, if not die. This guy knows how to fight. The good news is, if I die, this book will sell a lot more copies and be worth more.”

lol, thats forrest, he isnt the normal 'I'm going to knock his head off'' saying type of guy

 

[Liquidrob]

Double standard???? Anderson gets easy opponents and the UFC is holding his hand and molding him. Okami gets easy opponents and the UFC is trying to keep him down.

No, 1 guy is the 'p4p best in the world' and is getting fed Irvin, Cote and Thales in main event fights, the other has to fight on the undercard and being held back from high profile fights not in the main event

big difference

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

its ok that you think john cena or any WWE guy would be a top contender if he switched to MMA, stay strong to your believes, no one can take that away from you

Where are you pulling this bullshit from? I know your head is up your ass so it cant be coming from there. I guess you really are as moronic as you come off.