NBA Draft Rumors

[Kuzzy Powers]

And who's to say Kyrie can't become the best PG in the NBA?

I am to say this. :smug:

 

[FedEx227]

Yeah, he's definitely got to shake that bonehead rep he's gotten.

And hopefully he does because he's going to come at a really, really good value for some reason.

 

[A Tasty Burgerr]

The 4-5 or so PGs in the league who are all under 28 who are better than him.

I still have to LOL that people are penalizing Kanter for being an "unknown" when he signed with one of the biggest college programs in the country.

Does 11 games of experience in a watered down college season really make Irving that much more of a sure thing than Kanter? Calipari signed this kid for a reason less than a year ago. (You know the same coach who signed Demarcus Cousins and John Wall and Derrick Rose and Marcus Camby and ...)

I'm not saying Kanter is a sure thing but everyone is pretending like he's this mysterious figure who nobody has ever seen before when in actuality he played a year of high school ball here and was on his way to an NBA factory for college before being derailed.

Just because someone is a high recruit does not mean they are worthy of being a #1 overall pick, that is basically what your justification is here.

Just last year Josh Selby, Perry Jones, CJ Leslie, etc. were some of the top recruits in the country and they are not close to achieving any sort of NBA success.

I think that a U18 European tournament that he put up good numbers in and one all star game being guarded by Meyers Leonard and Jared Sullinger do not give him any sort of pass for not having played real competitive basketball for 2 years.

Once again I am not saying he will be a poor player, he will probably be very good, but he has not shown that he is on an elite level and to use Irving's "watered down college season" when he led the #1 team in the country against him and then say that Kanter has proven himself because he played high school ball and was committed to Kentucky is ridiculous.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'd take Williams or Kanter at 1. More than likely Williams because IMO he's more proven and at the premier position in the NBA right now.

If the Cavs can get Williams and Kanter and those guys develop all they need to do is get a servicable PG and they will be fine.

I'm firmly in the Williams>Irving camp for the #1 pick.

 

[EmpireWF]

Lots of talk the Knicks will buy an extra pick (they have no 2nd rounder...LAL has it) either late in the first or early in the second.

They don't have any picks next year, mind you.

 

[ralaw]

I'd take Williams or Kanter at 1. More than likely Williams because IMO he's more proven and at the premier position in the NBA right now.

If the Cavs can get Williams and Kanter and those guys develop all they need to do is get a servicable PG and they will be fine.

I'm firmly in the Williams>Irving camp for the #1 pick.

I think Williams is the best prospect because he has the highest ceiling. I can see him coming into the league and being a 15ppg, 7rpg guy. If I were the Cavs I'd probably take Williams and hope that Knight is closer to Irving that most think and take him. I really don’t like Knight as an NBA PG, because IMO he’s more of a scorer and isn’t the type of player that sets other up and makes the game easy for others.

If you’re the Cavs you have to weigh that Irving is the type of PG that you can build around and you still get Kanter who could develop into a top 5 bigman. So, assuming both Irving and Kanter develop you’re talking about a top 5-8 PG and a top 5 bigman…..not too bad. If you take Williams you’re probably going to get a top 10 forward who is a matchup nightmare and you have to hope that Knight can develop into a top 10 PG (which I don’t think he will). At the end of the day this is all speculation....for all we know Knight could eventually be the best player in this draft and none of what I typed would matter....this is just the nature of a draft.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I just do not see why a team that is literally rebuilding from the underground up is going to take a point guard as the cornerstone of their team. That shit is nonsensical to me.

 

[NAHSTE]

Oh ok the 4-5...listen he's already gonna come into the league and be one of the better PG's, just because of his package as a player. IMO he's already one of the complete PG's...it's funny...is it because he can't fly out the gym like a John Wall/Derrick Rose? Is that the only reason he's being penalized? Because I find that absurd.

Trying to build around an UNKNOWN big is very dangerous. Besides Howard, what big man has propelled his team towards the upper echelon of teams? Can't count Dirk, he plays on the wing/perimeter and I'm pretty sure Kanter doesn't play like Dirk.

Meanwhile you get Kyrie, who I feel is the best PG in this class bar none...build around him. Teams lately have more success with this idealogy than building around a big man. Bulls/Hornets/Jazz have had more recent success than the likes of the Bucks.

The Cavs are devoid of serious talent. And they will need a point to eventually get where they need to go. IMO you either go with Irving or Williams. If you go Irving with 4 you can grab a big. Or if you go Williams, you grab a PG with #4.

Duke fan ... did not read. And stop pretending Kanter is UNKNOWN. He's not. He's known.

Just because someone is a high recruit does not mean they are worthy of being a #1 overall pick, that is basically what your justification is here.

Just last year Josh Selby, Perry Jones, CJ Leslie, etc. were some of the top recruits in the country and they are not close to achieving any sort of NBA success.

I think that a U18 European tournament that he put up good numbers in and one all star game being guarded by Meyers Leonard and Jared Sullinger do not give him any sort of pass for not having played real competitive basketball for 2 years.

Once again I am not saying he will be a poor player, he will probably be very good, but he has not shown that he is on an elite level and to use Irving's "watered down college season" when he led the #1 team in the country against him and then say that Kanter has proven himself because he played high school ball and was committed to Kentucky is ridiculous.

I'm not saying this. I'm saying it's retarded to act like he's a complete UNKNOWN when he played high school ball here for a year, and was signed to a prominent program with a coach known for signing NBA talent. You guys are acting like he's fresh off the boat and nobody has ever seen him in uniform before like Yi Jianlian. He may or may not be worth the #1 pick but it has nothing to do with whether or not we know enough about him. There should be plenty of scouting footage, first hand accounts from Calipari, head to head int'l play etc. to accurately assess him.

It's not about Kyrie Irving, it's about how we're just placing a "RISKY EURO BECAUSE HE IS FOREIGN" label on Kanter when he's not that unknown at all. He played 11 fewer games than Kyrie Irving last season, but was on campus at Kentucky and ready to suit up right until the start of the season.

Is the Euro stigma really that strong that we're willing to ignore that a guy played high school ball here, signed with a top 5 program here, and dominated guys like Jared Sullinger in head to head competition?

I thought the draft was about acquiring talent, not experience. (As if Irving has suuuuuch an edge in this dept., lol)

 

[EmpireWF]

Kanter's knees are an issue, no?

 

[Maestro]

I see huge bust potential with both Irving and Williams. While i don't think Irving will be horrible, i don't see him being the star point guard that people think he will be. He is a pure point, but it looks like he may be close to his ceiling already, but i've been wrong about point guards in the past, and i did suggest that the Bulls pick Beasley over Rose so hey this could be a repeat of the past.

In the end i would pair Williams and Kanter if i were the Cavs, Ramon Sessions has already proven to be a more than serviceable starting point guard.

 

[Obst]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5aCEH6HSys[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcYy9iRz3E4&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk66SyQzTJo&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YzbhAQGPqk[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNK8siaYI7M[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I88cEmveJ9U[/ame]

 

[A Tasty Burgerr]

I see huge bust potential with both Irving and Williams. While i don't think Irving will be horrible, i don't see him being the star point guard that people think he will be. He is a pure point, but it looks like he may be close to his ceiling already, but i've been wrong about point guards in the past, and i did suggest that the Bulls pick Beasley over Rose so hey this could be a repeat of the past.

In the end i would pair Williams and Kanter if i were the Cavs, Ramon Sessions has already proven to be a more than serviceable starting point guard.

What in the world makes it seem like Irving is close to his ceiling already, I honestly have no idea what would suggest that.

I'm not saying this. I'm saying it's retarded to act like he's a complete UNKNOWN when he played high school ball here for a year, and was signed to a prominent program with a coach known for signing NBA talent. You guys are acting like he's fresh off the boat and nobody has ever seen him in uniform before like Yi Jianlian. He may or may not be worth the #1 pick but it has nothing to do with whether or not we know enough about him. There should be plenty of scouting footage, first hand accounts from Calipari, head to head int'l play etc. to accurately assess him.

It's not about Kyrie Irving, it's about how we're just placing a "RISKY EURO BECAUSE HE IS FOREIGN" label on Kanter when he's not that unknown at all. He played 11 fewer games than Kyrie Irving last season, but was on campus at Kentucky and ready to suit up right until the start of the season.

Is the Euro stigma really that strong that we're willing to ignore that a guy played high school ball here, signed with a top 5 program here, and dominated guys like Jared Sullinger in head to head competition?

I thought the draft was about acquiring talent, not experience. (As if Irving has suuuuuch an edge in this dept., lol)

It is completely irrelavent what nationality he is, that was never part of my argument. He plays nothing like the vast majority of European players.

Everyone is making it sound like he is bust-proof and destined to be a top 5 big, and are basing that on the fact that he played high school ball and dominated an all star game against (based on the footage of the hoops summit on youtube) Meyers Leonard for most of the game.

AGAIN lol I'm not saying I think he will bust, I like him, but he is not a standout prospect over other top players, I just don't see enough justification for you guys to make that assumption.

 

[NAHSTE]

Everyone is making it sound like he is bust-proof and destined to be a top 5 big,

Never said that ... I said if he reaches his potential he will be a top 5 big automatically due to his size and the fact that there are very few, if any, true centers left in the league.

and are basing that on the fact that he played high school ball and dominated an all star game against (based on the footage of the hoops summit on youtube) Meyers Leonard for most of the game.

No, I'm not using that to prop him up as a prospect. I'm using that to poke holes in the theory that he's a risk because he's unknown. All draft picks are risks of course. Sure he could bust out, but I don't think a team should shy away from him due to lack of information. Unless you think NBA teams should have passed on Al Jefferson, LeBron, Kobe, etc. who played exactly as many collegiate games as Kanter did. (Before you misinterpret, this has nothing to do with how good Kanter is, I'm not comparing him to those prospects ... I'm saying that his lack of "experience" should not be a hindrance.)

AGAIN lol I'm not saying I think he will bust, I like him, but he is not a standout prospect over other top players, I just don't see enough justification for you guys to make that assumption.

And again I'm not saying Irving will be a bust, but when you have the chance to take a big and a PG, you have to factor in position scarcity.

If they both reach their FULL potential ... Irving is still just one of many talented point guards (most of which are without championships) in the league and Kanter is one of very few talented big men.

 

[ralaw]

If they both reach their FULL potential ... Irving is still just one of many talented point guards (most of which are without championships) in the league and Kanter is one of very few talented big men.

I understand what you're saying, but they can take Irving at #1 and still get Kanter at #4, so what is the point in explaining that you take the big man first? If you're the Cavs there has to be a strategy to this......normally you do take the talented big man over the talented guard, but if you have 2 of the top 4 picks and the bigman isn't cleary a better prospect and is going to slide to you at #4 you have to weigh your options.

 

[Juggernaut]

I understand what you're saying, but they can take Irving at #1 and still get Kanter at #4, so what is the point in explaining that you take the big man first? There has to be a strategy to this......normally you do take the talented big man, but if you have 2 of the top 4 pickes you have options and don't have to lock into what is normally done.

At 4, you can still get Knight or Walker. Kanter could be taken as high as #2. Even if Irving gets picked second or third, there's still a comparable pg left.

 

[Obst]

No, I'm not using that to prop him up as a prospect. I'm using that to poke holes in the theory that he's a risk because he's unknown. All draft picks are risks of course. Sure he could bust out, but I don't think a team should shy away from him due to lack of information. Unless you think NBA teams should have passed on Al Jefferson, LeBron, Kobe, etc. who played exactly as many collegiate games as Kanter did. (Before you misinterpret, this has nothing to do with how good Kanter is, I'm not comparing him to those prospects ... I'm saying that his lack of "experience" should not be a hindrance.)

This. What elite talent did these guys face? Kanter has just as much, if not more experience than guys that came right out of high school. If you can play then you can play, 11 NCAA games doesn't make or break you.

 

[NAHSTE]

I understand what you're saying, but they can take Irving at #1 and still get Kanter at #4, so what is the point in explaining that you take the big man first? If you're the Cavs there has to be a strategy to this......normally you do take the talented big man over the talented guard, but if you have 2 of the top 4 picks and the bigman isn't cleary a better prospect and is going to slide to you at #4 you have to weigh your options.

This is true and having two picks kind of clouds the thought process. I'm just kind of discussing the merits of drafting one or the other in a vacuum.

If they can end up with both it'd be a huge haul. I like Williams a lot too but a SF/PF combo player is a bit easier to find than a franchise big.

 

[ralaw]

At 4, you can still get Knight or Walker. Kanter could be taken as high as #2. Even if Irving gets picked second or third, there's still a comparable pg left.

Its pretty much set that the Cavs are taking Irving at #1 and Williams or Kanter will be #2, Williams or Knight at #3 and Williams or Kanter at #4. Either way the Cavs will be getting the best PG and probably best PF or C prospect in the draft….this is the strategy they will take. The only way they get screwed is if Minnesota takes Kanter at #2 and Utah is forced to take Williams.

 

[Mogriffjr]

Yeah that plays a part in it too what ralaw is saying. You have to put yourself in the best position to get the BEST players. Grab what many consider the top PG in the drag. In Kyrie and then set up to grab the best big man in the draft.

And LOL nazhste...just because I'm a duke fan doesn't mean shyt. How much do I have to really hype up the likely #1 pick in the draft and consensus #1 PG on the board?? Cmon
dude.

So it seems you suggest to grab the best big man and grab the #2 or #3 rated PG. (both considered more of a PG who looks for their shot first than being a PG. Just doesn't make sense for the Cavs to set themselves up to not get the best talent for their squad.

 

[Obst]

A source very close to the Sixers said that Iggy for Kaman and Aminu will be done tomorrow night unless another team gets desperate and puts together a better offer. Also the Sixers view Kaman as a one year rental and will select Vucevic at 16 unless one of the top prospects somehow falls.

Jrue Holiday/Lou Williams
Evan Turner/Jodie Meeks
Al-Farouq Aminu/Andres Nocioni
Elton Brand/Thad Young
Chris Kaman/Spencer Hawes/Nikola Vucevic