NFL's Top 100 Discussion

[Senser81]

He has elite physical skills, is football smart, and was highly productive in only his second year in the league. What are his negatives, QB guru?

He's only thrown for over 300 yards once in his career, and that time he also threw 5 INTs. Tampa seemed to dumb down their offense for Freeman. He averaged 32 att/game his rookie year. Last year, he averaged less than 30 att/game. Tampa made a concerted effort to "hide" Freeman, and it worked. When he had to carry the team with his arm, he couldn't do it. He benefited from a weak schedule and a pretty good defense. In fact, Tampa's defense outranked their offense last season.

 

[Senser81]

Oh, and I keep forgetting to say this.

Watching that highlight film of Freeman, the player I came away most impressed with, and who is clearly underrated and far more worthy of this top 100 talk, is Mike Williams. He's much better than I thought, and really saved Freemans ass a lot more than I thought he did last year. Gets good seperation at the line, and wins nearly every jump ball.

True. Another guy that stood out for me was Donald Penn. Freeman had all day to throw. I can see why Penn made the Pro Bowl last year.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm no big Eli fan, and he's not top 100 either, but...

If I had to win a big road game against a tough team, and was forced to choose between Eli & Freeman to start at QB, i'd choose Eli without a moment of hesitation.

 

[Tengo Juego]

C'mon man. Matt Stover had more to do with the Ravens winning the Super Bowl than Dilfer did.

 

[killgod]

C'mon man. Matt Stover had more to do with the Ravens winning the Super Bowl than Dilfer did.

Which is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[BonesMahoney95]

I said he's lumped in with guys like Cassel & Flacco. Same level player. And I'm being kinda generous.



How did Freeman do in the playoffs?

Oh, that's right. He "pissed down his leg" with his playoff life on the line against THE LIONS.

Its funny, because I can easily replace 'Cassel' with 'Freeman' in your final statement to sum up my feelings on Freeman. I looked up his numbers Week 14 or 15 and was shocked.

I don't think anybody is saying the guy is a pile of shit. But he's a young player, protected by a conservative gameplan, who has one decent season and one HORRENDOUS season under his belt. Forgive us if we would like more of a resume before we fall over ourselves gushing over him. I never came away particulary impressed with the "eye test" when watching him.

How many Bucs games did you watch last year? I know it couldn't have been many since you don't live in Florida/aren't going to go out of your way to watch(I think I read in one of the wrestling threads you live in Texas?). And I am talking about watching full games, not the three Bucs highlights ESPN would show.

I can guarantee you didn't watch the Lions game because if you did you would know that loss had nothing to do with Freeman fucking up or "pissing down his leg" and everything to do with some coaching errors and one bullshit call. When it was tied near the end and the Bucs were in the redzone, instead of letting Freeman pass or Blount run, both which were working, Olson decided to run two Cadillac Williams dive plays and a QB Draw with Freeman on 3rd and 6 "to be safe" which led to only a field goal. Then on the Lions last drive of regulation and in OT someone thought it'd be a good idea to put Elbert Mack on Calvin Johnson. I think Calvin got at least half of his catches on those two drives alone.

Before all of that even happened on the drive before the Bucs had scored a TD to take the lead but the refs called a bullshit pass interference call on Winslow which they apologized for later in the week(for the record I hate using refs as excuses but that was such bullshit and partially cost them the game).

Now as for if he is a top 100 player... I can see both sides of the argument and think both could be right. Being a Bucs fan I agree with his position on the list, he showed a lot last year, but if someone doesn't think he should be on the list because it was just one year I couldn't really disagree with that either. I will say I think the "he threw up tons of 50/50 balls and got lucky" thing is bullshit though. I can see a lucky play, maybe even a game, but a lucky season doesn't happen. Gotta give Freeman some credit.

 

[Blick]

He's only thrown for over 300 yards once in his career, and that time he also threw 5 INTs. Tampa seemed to dumb down their offense for Freeman. He averaged 32 att/game his rookie year. Last year, he averaged less than 30 att/game. Tampa made a concerted effort to "hide" Freeman, and it worked. When he had to carry the team with his arm, he couldn't do it. He benefited from a weak schedule and a pretty good defense. In fact, Tampa's defense outranked their offense last season.

Don't buy the dumbed down offense observation. Freeman is a west coast offense guy. That's what they ran at K-State.

Rex Ryan was impressed by him when they were deciding between him and Sanchez.

http://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=6953:&Itemid=15

 

[Blick]

Which is the point I'm trying to make.

If you understand that, then you should understand QB's who make the playoffs aren't always better than QB's who don't.

 

[Blick]

How many Bucs games did you watch last year? I know it couldn't have been many since you don't live in Florida/aren't going to go out of your way to watch(I think I read in one of the wrestling threads you live in Texas?). And I am talking about watching full games, not the three Bucs highlights ESPN would show.

I can guarantee you didn't watch the Lions game because if you did you would know that loss had nothing to do with Freeman fucking up or "pissing down his leg" and everything to do with some coaching errors and one bullshit call. When it was tied near the end and the Bucs were in the redzone, instead of letting Freeman pass or Blount run, both which were working, Olson decided to run two Cadillac Williams dive plays and a QB Draw with Freeman on 3rd and 6 "to be safe" which led to only a field goal. Then on the Lions last drive of regulation and in OT someone thought it'd be a good idea to put Elbert Mack on Calvin Johnson. I think Calvin got at least half of his catches on those two drives alone.

Before all of that even happened on the drive before the Bucs had scored a TD to take the lead but the refs called a bullshit pass interference call on Winslow which they apologized for later in the week(for the record I hate using refs as excuses but that was such bullshit and partially cost them the game).

Now as for if he is a top 100 player... I can see both sides of the argument and think both could be right. Being a Bucs fan I agree with his position on the list, he showed a lot last year, but if someone doesn't think he should be on the list because it was just one year I couldn't really disagree with that either. I will say I think the "he threw up tons of 50/50 balls and got lucky" thing is bullshit though. I can see a lucky play, maybe even a game, but a lucky season doesn't happen. Gotta give Freeman some credit.

He has DirecTV. He's seen every game. Ever.

 

[killgod]

If you understand that, then you should understand QB's who make the playoffs aren't always better than QB's who don't.

Not always, but in this case is not the truth. Other than generic "He's awesome guize" comments you got nothing to support your point.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

How many Bucs games did you watch last year? I know it couldn't have been many since you don't live in Florida/aren't going to go out of your way to watch(I think I read in one of the wrestling threads you live in Texas?). And I am talking about watching full games, not the three Bucs highlights ESPN would show.

I can guarantee you didn't watch the Lions game because if you did you would know that loss had nothing to do with Freeman fucking up or "pissing down his leg" and everything to do with some coaching errors and one bullshit call. When it was tied near the end and the Bucs were in the redzone, instead of letting Freeman pass or Blount run, both which were working, Olson decided to run two Cadillac Williams dive plays and a QB Draw with Freeman on 3rd and 6 "to be safe" which led to only a field goal. Then on the Lions last drive of regulation and in OT someone thought it'd be a good idea to put Elbert Mack on Calvin Johnson. I think Calvin got at least half of his catches on those two drives alone.

Before all of that even happened on the drive before the Bucs had scored a TD to take the lead but the refs called a bullshit pass interference call on Winslow which they apologized for later in the week(for the record I hate using refs as excuses but that was such bullshit and partially cost them the game).

Now as for if he is a top 100 player... I can see both sides of the argument and think both could be right. Being a Bucs fan I agree with his position on the list, he showed a lot last year, but if someone doesn't think he should be on the list because it was just one year I couldn't really disagree with that either. I will say I think the "he threw up tons of 50/50 balls and got lucky" thing is bullshit though. I can see a lucky play, maybe even a game, but a lucky season doesn't happen. Gotta give Freeman some credit.

The "pissed down his leg" comment was in response to Blick, who used the same line regarding Cassel's playoff performance,. The idea being, that at least Casse won when he had to and played in the playoffs.

And like I mentioned earlier, I watched plenty of Bucs games last year, including the Lions game, which if I recall, saw the offense go into a shell as the game progressed, which bnecame a bit of a hot button topic that week. Id like someone to explain to me why Tampa went even more conservative than usual during the pay window portion of that game, if Freeman is the elite level QB that some are proclaiming him to be. That's rhetorical, btw.

And again, although it sounds like I'm trashing him, I'm not. My stance is simply that there is no chance he is one of the best 100 players in the league.

 

[Aso]

He's only thrown for over 300 yards once in his career, and that time he also threw 5 INTs. Tampa seemed to dumb down their offense for Freeman. He averaged 32 att/game his rookie year. Last year, he averaged less than 30 att/game. Tampa made a concerted effort to "hide" Freeman, and it worked. When he had to carry the team with his arm, he couldn't do it. He benefited from a weak schedule and a pretty good defense. In fact, Tampa's defense outranked their offense last season.

That tampa run defense has teams running scared.

 

[Blick]

Not always, but in this case is not the truth. Other than generic "He's awesome guize" comments you got nothing to support your point.

I think you need to re-read the thread again.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

He has DirecTV. He's seen every game. Ever.

In 2008 & 2009, I probably watched 90% of the games in full.

The last two years, id say about 70%. I don't watch most of the primetime games and didn't record all of the 30 min replays like I used to do.

Why is this so hard to fathom? I know I'm not the only one who does this.

 

[Aso]

True. Another guy that stood out for me was Donald Penn. Freeman had all day to throw. I can see why Penn made the Pro Bowl last year.

Donald Penn sucked last year... The entire bucs offensive line is horrible. Penn is overrated, Davin Joseph is WAY overrated and Jeremy Trueblood is a joke. Freeman was constantly under pressure last year.

 

[Blick]

In 2008 & 2009, I probably watched 90% of the games in full.

The last two years, id say about 70%. I don't watch most of the primetime games and didn't record all of the 30 min replays like I used to do.

Why is this so hard to fathom? I know I'm not the only one who does this.

I believe you. I was just giving you shit.

 

[Blick]

The "pissed down his leg" comment was in response to Blick, who used the same line regarding Cassel's playoff performance,. The idea being, that at least Casse won when he had to and played in the playoffs.

And like I mentioned earlier, I watched plenty of Bucs games last year, including the Lions game, which if I recall, saw the offense go into a shell as the game progressed, which bnecame a bit of a hot button topic that week. Id like someone to explain to me why Tampa went even more conservative than usual during the pay window portion of that game, if Freeman is the elite level QB that some are proclaiming him to be. That's rhetorical, btw.

And again, although it sounds like I'm trashing him, I'm not. My stance is simply that there is no chance he is one of the best 100 players in the league.

Cassel didn't win shit. The Chiefs got a playoff berth due to a weak division that the Bucs would've won as well since they had the same record.

I like how Freeman gets knocked when the coaching staff was the problem like Bones pointed out. Freeman wasn't calling the plays.

Still waiting on your list....

 

[BonesMahoney95]

Donald Penn sucked last year... The entire bucs offensive line is horrible. Penn is overrated, Davin Joseph is WAY overrated and Jeremy Trueblood is a joke. Freeman was constantly under pressure last year.

Freeman was under a lot of pressure last year but it wasn't because of Penn, he sucked in 09 because he put on 50+ pounds during the season but last year he was probowl worthy. The pressure had a lot to do with having to plug different guys in constantly because of injury. Near the end of the year when they had played together for a couple weeks the Oline was solid.

 

[Senser81]

Donald Penn sucked last year... The entire bucs offensive line is horrible. Penn is overrated, Davin Joseph is WAY overrated and Jeremy Trueblood is a joke. Freeman was constantly under pressure last year.

Donald Penn sucked last year?? How many Tampa games did you watch last year? Zero?

 

[Senser81]

Don't buy the dumbed down offense observation.

Thats nice.