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Replacement Ref Discussion Thread - Deal Reached, Will Work Thursday

Also, nobody is talking about why this is all happening anyway.

The refs, part time employees mind you, are demanding pensions.

First of all pensions? Really? Is this 1960? Secondly, the league doesn't pay some full time employees pensions.

Why is nobody blaming the refs and their greedy union?

Plenty of people at fault here, starting with the real refs (the ones who apparently are awesome and never make mistakes ever).

How about that the NFL decided to hire 15 new officials and keep the same salary pool? I'm sure the refs would be willing to give some leeway on the pensions if they weren't being asked to take a pay cut while every other person associated with the NFL is getting richer by the second.

And sure the refs work on the field part time but that doesn't take into account the time they have to take to study new rules every year, watch film to learn player tendencies and just flat out learn how to deal with the speed of the NFL game.

I think based on what we've seen so far this year that isn't just something you can pick up in two months.
 
The league needs to double the fines, and potentially consider suspending the players who have gone insane on twitter. Allowing the players to react like this towards officials only makes things worse. These guys need to be muzzled, and fast. You can not let the inmates run things.

These refs have been bad, but shame on the players for the lack of respect being shown. Same for the coaches. It only exasperates the issue, and whips goofball emotional fans into a frenzy.

Lang should be suspended.
 
I also find it funny that Goddell has all his PR minions out there taking the "greedy" referees to task about their union demands but has trouble dealing with his employees that actually make him money airing their grievances in the public sphere during their LEAGUE MANDATED press conference time.

You don't want these guys answering questions about the officials? Don't make them do press conferences 20 minutes after they just watched the keystone cops help to decide whether they will be employed next year or not.
 
I don't know why anyone hates on Goodell. A pro league commish is simply a unified voice, a PR guy, a hand puppet, for the 32 owners.

He's also supposed to be a voice of reason and unification. There's got to be some reason they pay the guy more than God.
 
He's also supposed to be a voice of reason and unification. There's got to be some reason they pay the guy more than God.

Probably is, doesn't change the fact that every word out of his mouth is basically the owners speaking.

Owners don't want to pay, then fuckin deal with it. They are probably loving the attention and know all these false threats of "stop watching" are 100% bullshit. The NFL is probably gaining from this.
 
I also find it funny that Goddell has all his PR minions out there taking the "greedy" referees to task about their union demands but has trouble dealing with his employees that actually make him money airing their grievances in the public sphere during their LEAGUE MANDATED press conference time.

You don't want these guys answering questions about the officials? Don't make them do press conferences 20 minutes after they just watched the keystone cops help to decide whether they will be employed next year or not.

glen you can't talk about officials, doesn't make a difference if they are the real officials or the replacements. This has always been the case and it shouldn't change now, that is my point, the blatant disrespect is snowballing and getting out of control.

I'd like to see these players shut their mouths, and put their money where their mouth is. Put this supposed "boycott" into action. Go on strike and don't show up for work on Wednesday. I bet they won't.

Until then, I don't wan't to hear a word from these players. They are making things worse and are speaking out of school.
 
Probably is, doesn't change the fact that every word out of his mouth is basically the owners speaking.

Owners don't want to pay, then fuckin deal with it. They are probably loving the attention and know all these false threats of "stop watching" are 100% bullshit. The NFL is probably gaining from this.

My support for this point: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...turn-seahawks-touchdown?campaign=Twitter_news

NFL doesn't fucking care one bit. They are practically daring you to turn off the TV...oh wait, it's a subscription service, you're paying even if you don't turn it on. Same goes for the ads they have lined up.

NFL has this well under control.
 
How about that the NFL decided to hire 15 new officials and keep the same salary pool? I'm sure the refs would be willing to give some leeway on the pensions if they weren't being asked to take a pay cut while every other person associated with the NFL is getting richer by the second.

And sure the refs work on the field part time but that doesn't take into account the time they have to take to study new rules every year, watch film to learn player tendencies and just flat out learn how to deal with the speed of the NFL game.

I think based on what we've seen so far this year that isn't just something you can pick up in two months.

My post from other thread.

Demand full time hours/access from the Officials , overhaul the replay system that is too busy trying protecting gameflow an integrity of the game and failing at both.

Goodell is hanging these replacements out to dry. He has no intention of fixing officiating or long term system correction. This is strictly money savings. Pathetic.
The NFL officiating problem is just being glorified by unsupported and unprepared people. This is a grand opportunity to dramatically overhaul things and per usual its only about $$ for Roger.

90% Of NFL officials are full time workers elsewhere many are attorneys company management etc. Hardly the kind of people youd expect to have the amount of hours available to do the best job possible for the league.

Heres a pasted article. With Ed Hochuli highlighting what he feels is a very important job of getting the calls right on sunday.

 
A year ago, the NFL Referees Association hired an outside accounting firm to determine if their part-time jobs had full-time considerations.

The firm determined that the job is more involved than just showing up at games on Sundays and officiating for three hours. Ed Hochuli, who heads the NFLRA, goes through a typical NFL week.

"It varies a little bit from official to official, depending upon the position," Hochuli said. "I'm a referee and spend about 15 hours a week reviewing video tape. I look at game tapes which includes the television view, the sideline view and the end zone vew from teams. I have to break that down. I get position tapes. For example, the referees will get referee's tapes that show intentional grounding, offensive holding, illegal hits to the quarterback, chop blocks and things like that."

A lawyer by trade, Hochuli says he spends maybe two hours in the morning and four hours at night doing things related to officiating from Monday to Friday. "All of the officials are looking at the same tapes, seeing calls, because it's a narrow line between what's legal and what's illegal," he said.

Hochuli said he spends a couple of hours a week doing administrative things. He must file reports to the league. He has to write letters on behalf of the league. All are part of his job as a referee.

"Each official has to take a written test every week during the season and every month in the offseason," Hochuli said. "I personally spent an hour a day studying rules. Rules in the NFL are extremely complicated. Rules enforcement in the NFL is extremely complicated. We have a case book that has 1,000 plays. I find in order to stay on top of the rules, I read them all the time."

Most officials on all levels -- high school, college and pros -- read case books to stay current on rules.

“ Rules in the NFL are extremely complicated. Rules enforcement in the NFL is extremely complicated. We have a case book that has 1,000 plays. I find in order to stay on top of the rules, I read them all the time. ”
— Ed Hochuli, head of NFL Referees Association

"I spent a lot of time on the phone," Hochuli said. "I have to talk to supervisors three to five times a week involving the grading process of officials. Members of the crew spend a lot of time talking to each other during the week. I'll probably talk to the six other members of my crew at least two or three times during the week to talk about rules interpretation."

Overall, that totals about 30 hours a week.

"I consider my conditioning part of the job," Hochuli said. "I have to be fit and have to move around. I consider my appearance important. I should look like an athlete on the field, so I spend a couple hours a day on conditioning."

Hochuli said he also spends time in front of a mirror to make sure he can probably announce calls.

"I think the appearance we portray as referees are very important," Hochuli said. "When you say something, you don't want to be stumbling over your words. I've got a box full of play situations. I'll go over the announcements that need to be made and do the announcements, so when it comes up in games, I say it smoothly and not come out looking like an idiot."

Weekends begin by leaving for the airport at 4:30 a.m for an early flight. On Saturdays before the game, there are meetings throughout the day to review tapes and go over the written tests. At the stadiums, there are meetings before the game.

"Then we'll get home at 11 p.m. on Sunday night," Hochuli said. "We also have random drug and alcohol testing. They might call me at 9 p.m. the night before a game and tell me there will be drug testing in the morning. That might happen three or four times a year. I was tested on the morning of the Super Bowl.

"We don't quarrel about that. No official has ever showed up with a positive test. The league and we are concerned about the integrity of officials. During the offseason, we can't go to Las Vegas or any city with casinos without notifying the league and getting permission. That's all part of the image."





I don't know why anyone hates on Goodell. A pro league commish is simply a unified voice, a PR guy, a hand puppet, for the 32 owners.

Tags and Rozelle were pro league. There vision and implementation of changes were rarely greedy and nearly always better for the health of the league. Goodell has no vision and essentially no idea what he's doing. Tagliabue made a mistake bringing in Roger who he thought was a great business minded guy that the NFL needed in this new era. Goodell does not know what is best for this league , his ideas are strictly quick money driven and expansion driven. His entire legacy thus far is entirely built on sending warning letters and suspending guys names PacMan and Tank.
Hes a smart guy and savvy.But totally wrong for the position. Hes someone that should have been answering to someone like Rozelle and Tags...not being them.
 
Here's the NFL's official statement on the debacle last night. The net-net is that they are saying offensive pass interference should have been called against Tate and that "there was no visual evidence" to overturn the call on the field with regards to the catch.

Sweeping under the rug is sweeping under the rug :olhoss:

Editor's note: The following is a statement issued by the NFL regarding Golden Tate's game-winning touchdown catch at the conclusion of Monday night's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks:

In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

The result of the game is final.

Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:

Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.
 
glen you can't talk about officials, doesn't make a difference if they are the real officials or the replacements. This has always been the case and it shouldn't change now, that is my point, the blatant disrespect is snowballing and getting out of control.

I'd like to see these players shut their mouths, and put their money where their mouth is. Put this supposed "boycott" into action. Go on strike and don't show up for work on Wednesday. I bet they won't.

Until then, I don't wan't to hear a word from these players. They are making things worse and are speaking out of school.

That's because these officials are terrible. Why should the players have to sacrifice their own money because the owner's/Goddell are willing to risk their livelihoods and safety after signing a $28 billion dollar package of TV deals and just got done squeezing the player's in a lockout of their own a year earlier.

I know I didn't watch as much football as I usually do this weekend, I've already said I won't be buying tickets to the SD game like I usually do this year and I hope others follow suit.

And before you tell me how regular refs make mistakes too, I'm well aware. Doesn't change the fact that these refs are far worse and cheapen the product more and more every week.

As more and more fans see their personal favorite teams get screwed by these guys the more and more will tune out of the league. Maybe not skip their team's favorite game but not really care about the rest of the league.
 
My post from other thread.



90% Of NFL officials are full time workers elsewhere many are attorneys company management etc. Hardly the kind of people youd expect to have the amount of hours available to do the best job possible for the league.

Heres a pasted article. With Ed Hochuli highlighting what he feels is a very important job of getting the calls right on sunday.

 








Tags and Rozelle were pro league. There vision and implementation of changes were rarely greedy and nearly always better for the health of the league. Goodell has no vision and essentially no idea what he's doing. Tagliabue made a mistake bringing in Roger who he thought was a great business minded guy that the NFL needed in this new era. Goodell does not know what is best for this league , his ideas are strictly quick money driven and expansion driven. His entire legacy thus far is entirely built on sending warning letters and suspending guys names PacMan and Tank.
Hes a smart guy and savvy.But totally wrong for the position. Hes someone that should have been answering to someone like Rozelle and Tags...not being them.

What you don't like the idea of totally screwing two teams every year by forcing them to play a game in Europe and then comically referring to it as a "home" game for one of them?

Two lockouts in two seasons... Apparently he and Bettman are in some kind of Special Olympics-esque competition.
 
That's because these officials are terrible. Why should the players have to sacrifice their own money because the owner's/Goddell are willing to risk their livelihoods and safety after signing a $28 billion dollar package of TV deals and just got done squeezing the player's in a lockout of their own a year earlier.

I know I didn't watch as much football as I usually do this weekend, I've already said I won't be buying tickets to the SD game like I usually do this year and I hope others follow suit.

And before you tell me how regular refs make mistakes too, I'm well aware. Doesn't change the fact that these refs are far worse and cheapen the product more and more every week.

As more and more fans see their personal favorite teams get screwed by these guys the more and more will tune out of the league. Maybe not skip their team's favorite game but not really care about the rest of the league.

If you are putting your money where your mouth is, I respect that. We all know most people wont. I

I bet Thursday will be the highest rated TNF game this season. Same for Sunday. People are feigning their level of outrage.
 
I'll be honest I have little to no interest in the NFL this year. I have watched three games all year, the three Bronco games. The officiating has been dreadful in all three games.

I won't be boycotting the Bronco games any time soon. But you better believe that MLB has been and will remain my viewing priority.
 
If you are putting your money where your mouth is, I respect that. We all know most people wont. I

I bet Thursday will be the highest rated TNF game this season. Same for Sunday. People are feigning their level of outrage.

Isn't the Thursday game featuring the Browns? You couldn't pay me to watch that shit! I'll be watching the Brewers, and Parks and Rec; thank you very much.
 
I don't think hardcore fans will care, they will watch. I don't think hardcore gamblers will care, they will still gamble and watch.

I do think people who barely follow football or who occasionally gamble will tune out, though. Are you going to lay money down on a game when you cannot even determine how much impact the refs will have on the game? Are you going to watch a game when all you hear from commentators is blown calls and grown men yelling at refs? I don't think so.

It won't make a huge dent since there are so many big time football fans and gamblers out there, but we might see a SLIGHT decrease because of the refs having such a negative impact.
 
I don't think hardcore fans will care, they will watch. I don't think hardcore gamblers will care, they will still gamble and watch.

I do think people who barely follow football or who occasionally gamble will tune out, though. Are you going to lay money down on a game when you cannot even determine how much impact the refs will have on the game? Are you going to watch a game when all you hear from commentators is blown calls and grown men yelling at refs? I don't think so.

It won't make a huge dent since there are so many big time football fans and gamblers out there, but we might see a SLIGHT decrease because of the refs having such a negative impact.

I think you're underestimating the amount of casuals who will tune in, merely because they heard about this weekend's drama. People love drama, however it comes.
 
I think you're underestimating the amount of casuals who will tune in, merely because they heard about this weekend's drama. People love drama, however it comes.

People like drama they can understand. I don't think the casual fan cares about the drama regarding whether or not something was offensive or defensive pass interference. The casual fan doesn't know the difference between the two, really. They want drama in terms of personalities or solid football, not drama based on a 15 yard penalty being given 27 yards instead.
 
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