Serious MVP Discussion

[Primetime]

well i'm from pittsburgh (how else could i possibly root for the pirates), so i'm assuming he thinks the cavs are my team because they are close on a map

I was just looking at your avatar where it says you live in San Carlos, CA. lulz

 

[Point Blank]

Drawing fouls is an ability. Just like getting hit by a pitch in baseball. Wade looks for the foul because he knows he can go knock down 2 shots from the line. Kobe gets the calls too. All these players we are talking about have a great ability to draw fouls. Don't act like refs are favoring people when it is a vital part of these superstars game.

Superstars do get special treatment by the refs bro, it might not be a lot but it's there. You're right about players having the ability to draw fouls, but it's not them 100% of the time. You ever see players like Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul, Dirk, Duncan, etc (Those are the players I notice doing it the most)..chit chating with the refs after a deadball or commercial break? Most of time they're explaining/bitching about what whoever is checking them is doing to them.. After that you'll noticed they will get calls in their favor if the refs catches what so and so is doing. Ask Bruce Bowen..lol. Anyone ever notice this?

 

[Primetime]

Superstars do get special treatment by the refs bro, it might not be a lot but it's there. You're right about players having the ability to draw fouls, but it's not them 100% of the time. You ever see players like Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul, Dirk, Duncan, etc (Those are the players I notice doing it the most)..chit chating with the refs after a deadball or commercial break? Most of time they're explaining/bitching about what whoever is checking them is doing to them.. After that you'll noticed they will get calls in their favor if the refs catches what so and so is doing. Anyone ever notice this?

I know they do get some calls, which relates to my analogy of getting hit by a pitch. Sometimes it just happens. Some people are just assuming that 90% of those superstars are just getting these calls out of pure "favorism". It's just not all about the refs.

 

[dell71]

my ballot is currently LBJ>Wade>Paul. i'm a stats guy, so i have to throw this into the mix. it's the % of a team's total FGM that a player is responsible for, so a player's (FGM+AST) / (TEAM FGM)

current top 15:
1. Chris Paul .499 (the team 'underachieving' has zero to do with paul's play)
2. Dwyane Wade .488
3. LeBron James .465
4. Joe Johnson .374 (a bit of a surprise here)
5. Kobe Bryant .369
6. Tony Parker .360
7. Deron Williams .358
8. Brandon Roy .350
9. Derrick Rose .347 (really making things happen)
10. Rajon Rondo .347 (surprised?)
11. Raymond Felton .345 (say what?)
12. Andre Miller .340
13. Vince Carter .335
14. Devin Harris .333
15. Steve Nash .330

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and hate to start a flame war but... paul was the clear MVP last season. he got some help from west and peja, but clearly paul had that team on his back - his % of the team's FGM was .491 last season, compared to .374 for kobe. and the whole 'the lakers won the h2h matchup' argument is moot of the lakers aren't gifted pau gasol for the stretch - they were 22-4 with him in the lineup after the transaction (5-5 otherwise). meanwhile the hornets go 17-8 in mar/apr (right in line with their season win%), with paul going for 21/13, but the final score of the third-to-last game in an 82-game season is how you decide who is the league's MVP?

This is a nice stat but in no way can you look at it and say whoever's at the top should be the MVP. Especially for a PG, who it can be argued IS contributing to his team's underachieving by not distributing the ball more (not saying that's the case here but it can be argued).

Anyhoo, I think LeBron is going to win it, unless Wade continues averaging 35 ppg over the 2nd half like he has been. It'll be kind of tough to ignore him, then.

Seriously though, I'd like to know what everyone has seen from 'Bron's or Kobe's supporting cast to lead them to think they would do anything without the star of their team. Removing either guy's name from their respective rosters and all I see is lottery teams. Mo Williams & Ilgauskas leading the Cavs to the post-season? Maybe after a dogfight for the 8th seed. Pau & Odom having the Lakers as a playoff team? How is this any different than Gasol's Grizzlies teams that couldn't make it. Sorry, I'm just not going ga-ga over all the supposed talent these guys have around them.

Don't get me wrong, these are nice complimentary players who work well with the star but what is a bunch of complimentary players with no star?

 

[Vinsane]

I got something to add to the "Getting calls" argument. LeBron James is listed at 6'6" 250LBS. Now that's a big boy, matter of fact however, LeBron plays upward of 175-180lbs if not more. No one knows the dudes real weight, he's a football wide-reciever playing basketball, if you need an idea of his speed check out the block on J.Rich. (Yes, it was a foul, so don't bring that shit in here.) . Now take that speed, and that weight and when he's coming down the lane tell me what your going to do against him?

Guys either get out of the way or wrap him up and he drags them with him. So getting calls for LeBron isn't so much ticky-tack fouls as is what else can you do?

Another thing, Kobe is a talent yes, but Kobe's time is running out, he's still atheletic as hell, will go down as one of the greats. But guys like Wade, LeBron, Howard, CP3, the list goes on. They want Kobe status and they're all getting very, very, close. Kobe can still play I'm not saying that he can't but now the talent in the league has changed and getting up on his level, perhaps Wade/LeBron have a chance to change the plateau. No one is taking anything away from Kobe's talent but the league has changed since his arrival. It's only natural that someone step up and take over where the last guy left off.

 

[red33]

Lebron is gonna win it this year. Ive been saying it since the Cavs started out hot. Dude does everything and Kobe is my fav player right now.

Also Nash may have deserved 1 MVP but no way in hell does he deserve back to back.