The breakdown of P4P meaning and fighters

[CrimsonGhost56]

lol, no way W2B, for a HW you have to have big time skills to crack the top 10, only guys worthy of that would be Fedor and Nog right now

You must be thinking of a different list...

bu bu but hes a draw... and a heel!

 

[RKO BLACK RKO]

For Pound for Pound (p4p) discussion

Basically the term p4p means Anderson Silva

There I just shortened and saved you a whole lot of writing...

 

[Liquidrob]

There I just shortened and saved you a whole lot of writing...

thanks for the insight

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Spider
4. Machida
5. BJ

Shit gets kinda messy after this..

6. Quinton Jackson (last loss before his "loss" to Forrest was over 4 years ago.. thats pretty serious stuff, he cant be overlooked here)
7. Gegard Mousasi (based off talent and potential.. may not have the glaring resume yet, but he will)
8. Urijah Faber (still IMO better p4p than Mike Brown.. if he didnt bust the hands up I think the fights are split 1/1 right now. Mike Brown is hovering on this list)
9. Antonio Nogueira (cant believe I ever doubted him after the Mir performance.. I wont hold it against him cause I know how deadly staph infections are.. Nog is one of the greatest ever and is still doing it at the high level, he deserves to be on this list)
10. Rashad Evans (sorry to Miguel Torres, but the loss to Bowes just pushes you off the list for me. Guess a little bias here being a Rashad fan.. but other than getting worked by an elite fighter in Machida, who I think can make a lot good fighters look silly, Rashad still has a decent resume, and the pure talent to get on the list for me)

On the bubble: Miguel Torres, Mike Brown, Jake Shields, Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, Nick Diaz.

Note: If Nick wasnt a fuck-head and didnt prefer smoking weed over fighting, he probably would've made the p4p list over Rashad.. but it wasnt to be. Good to see a lot of talent outside of the UFC bubbling and in this list.

 

[RKO BLACK RKO]

thanks for the insight

No Prob

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

lol, no way W2B, for a HW you have to have big time skills to crack the top 10, only guys worthy of that would be Fedor and Nog right now

You must be thinking of a different list...

I think Lesnar would beat Nog with minimal effort. But that's for another day.

Sometimes you guys get wrapped up in this mythical idea of skillsets and things like technical striking, which admittedly is where the debates come in, but wins and losses should always be #1.

Brian Bowles in undefeated, and beat Torres. He's another guy everyone is ignoring. I see Torres on some of these lists, but no sign of Bowles.

So to me, I don't really care what kind of skills Torres brings to the table in comparison to Bowles, because Bowles beat him...and it wasnt in fluky fashion, like Matt Serra or Frank Mir.

Not having Bowles on a list is fine, but you cant turn around and have Torres.

 

[Liquidrob]

W2B, its P4P which means 'Pound for Pound', the term was created for the fighters with skill sets who would never be able to beat the bigger fighters, and yes, it is mythical

So if Brock and Nog were the same size you would think Brock would win or even be the favorite? Brock is like 30-50 lbs heavier than all the UFC guys he has fought and that is a huge factor

You dont think that Brock and Randy wouldnt be different if he didnt have a 50 lbs weight advantage?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I think Lesnar would beat Nog with minimal effort. But that's for another day.

Sometimes you guys get wrapped up in this mythical idea of skillsets and things like technical striking, which admittedly is where the debates come in, but wins and losses should always be #1.

Brian Bowles in undefeated, and beat Torres. He's another guy everyone is ignoring. I see Torres on some of these lists, but no sign of Bowles.

So to me, I don't really care what kind of skills Torres brings to the table in comparison to Bowles, because Bowles beat him...and it wasnt in fluky fashion, like Matt Serra or Frank Mir.

Not having Bowles on a list is fine, but you cant turn around and have Torres.

The difference for me is Bowles is 8-0 and Torres is 37-2. Torres been through 8-0 already. I dont know enough about Bowles to say for sure that Torres would beat him the next time.. but ive seen enough of Miguel to say I think he'd avenge the loss.

 

[Liquidrob]

Bowles can start getting the 'talk' of being in the top 10, but he is 8-0, if he beats Torress again than he would be in, kind of like Mike Brown, but Brown had way more wins before he beat Faber and already defended his title in brutal fashion, once he beat Uriah again it was a done deal

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Bowles can start etting the 'talk' of being in the top 10, but he is 8-0, if he beats Torress again than he would be in, kind of like Mike Brown, but Brown had way more wins before he beat Faber and already defended his title in brutal fashion, once he beat Uriah again it was a done deal

I actually had this in my post but deleted it because I didnt want another Mike Brown debate... lol. Its pretty much the same sito for me.. that being said im quicker to put Brown in there than Bowles. If Bowles can keep doing it and especially beat Miguel again, people have to take notice.

 

[Liquidrob]

I actually had this in my post but deleted it because I didnt want another Mike Brown debate... lol. Its pretty much the same sito for me.. that being said im quicker to put Brown in there than Bowles. If Bowles can keep doing it and especially beat Miguel again, people have to take notice.

well, when I started talking about Brown being in the the discussion, he already defended his title once with a brutal punch and choke out, its a little different, plus Brown has been on the scene a lot longer, but I don't want to get into another Brown debate either, lol

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I agree with the last three or four posts, I have no issue with leaving Bowles off, and can definately see Torres winning a rematch.

My point, is you cant include Torres without including an unbeaten fighter who just beat him.

Nothing "mythical" needs to be imagined here...they fought, at the same weight, and Bowles won.

edit-i'm leaving the Brock stuff alone, because I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Liquidrob]

I agree with the last three or four posts, I have no issue with leaving Bowles off, and can definately see Torres winning a rematch.

My point, is you cant include Torres without including an unbeaten fighter who just beat him.

Nothing "mythical" needs to be imagined here...they fought, at the same weight, and Bowles won.

and Bowles doesnt have 37 win either, you cant always go head to head, Bowles hasnt even defended his title once, there are other factors

this isnt the highlander, you just dont automatically take the other guys ranking

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

and Bowles doesnt have 37 win either, you cant always go head to head, Bowles hasnt even defended his title once, there are other factors

this isnt the highlander, you just dont automatically take the other guys ranking

Wow.

How can head to head not be the #1 criteria in this case? The whole idea of these lists is mythical fights that may never happen. In this case, the fight actaully happened, yet that dosen't matter?

In the most recent fight for both men, they fought each other, and Bowles won. And he's not some sloutch, he's an unbeaten champion in the premeir org for his weight class.

You don't have to imagine anything in this case, Bowles beat him.

And to your last point, no, I don't think Bowles should just replace Torres in his slot. Again, my point is you cant include Torres now without including Bowles. I have no issue with leaving Bowles off.

 

[Liquidrob]

Wow.

How can head to head not be the #1 criteria in this case? The whole idea of these lists is mythical fights that may never happen. In this case, the fight actaully happened, yet that dosen't matter?

In the most recent fight for both men, they fought each other, and Bowles won. And he's not some sloutch, he's an unbeaten champion in the premeir org for his weight class.

You don't have to imagine anything in this case, Bowles beat him.

And to your last point, no, I don't think Bowles should just replace Torres in his slot. Again, my point is you cant include Torres now without including Bowles. I have no issue with leaving Bowles off.

You cant always go head to head when talking rankings, who should be higher ranked, Forrest or Rampage?

So are Brock and Mir even fighters? They are 1-1 with each other, Randy has been ranked higher than most in the LHW and HW divisions and he has a 16-10 record

Torres didnt lose for like 5 years, Bowles looked great and I see where you are coming from, but this is p4p rankings, skill set, wins and losses, etc...all come into play

And its not like I put Torres really high either, I put him 9th, Bowles would be right on the outside looking in along with Shields, Rampage, Aoki, Alaverez, etc...it's not a slight in anyway, he just has to do a little more IMO to solidify a spot

You cant throw away a guys whole career or even the last couple years because he lost a fight

 

[Liquidrob]

I would like to see 1 more fight from Bowles and how Torres comes back after this loss, they probably will rematch them right away and if Bowles wins again than its a lock, if Torres wins than we are back to where we started pretty much

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You cant always go head to head when talking rankings, who should be higher ranked, Forrest or Rampage?

Alot has happened since that fight. Bowles/Torres was the last fight for each man.

So are Brock and Mir even fighters? They are 1-1 with each other,

Mitigating factors here, Brock smashed him the second time, and was smashing him the first time. Nobody who watched both fights would rank Mir ahead of Lesnar.

And its not like I put Torres really high either, I put him 9th, Bowles would be right on the outside looking in along with Shields, Rampage, Aoki, Alaverez, etc...it's not a slight in anyway, he just has to do a little more IMO to solidify a spot

You cant throw away a guys whole career or even the last couple years because he lost a fight

I see what you are saying, but I don't agree. And i'm throwing away anyones career. I just cant discount the fact Bowles beat the guy head to head.

 

[Liquidrob]

Mir beat Brock in 90 seconds, Brock didnt finish Mir until the 2nd round

Franks last 4 fights

Loss Brock Lesnar TKO (Punches)
Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira TKO (Punches)
Win Brock Lesnar Submission (Kneebar)
Win Antoni Hardonk Submission (Kimura)

Brocks last 4 fights

Win Frank Mir TKO (Punches)
Win Randy Couture TKO (Punches)
Win Heath Herring Decision (Unanimous)
Loss Frank Mir Submission (Kneebar)

who's better?

I say Brock, but record wise and head to head it could be Mir, they are 1-1 against each other and Mir beat Nog who is better than Randy, Mir finished Hardonk and Brock won a decision against Heath

 

[Steel Mamba]

Nog is the man, if Fedor was never created in the lab everyone would be all over Nog, Nog’s weakness would be his striking defense, he needs to thank baby jesus he has an iron chin, the only thing that ever stopped him was a staph infection, even that bus he got hit by at 11 couldn’t put him away

Brown is just so solid, his striking, striking defense + chin, the ability to TD and control where the fight goes is his strength

He is the GSP of the lighter weights IMO, he can impose his game plan on anyone at 145, not many fighters in the sport can dictate where the fight goes against almost every opponent, Brown is 1 of them

Yeah I guess I can buy that, but is his striking defense really a weakness if no one can take adv of it? Unless he's in the hosptial with staph a week before the fight no one can knock the guy out. Brown is a great fighter, I defended him in the past when people were saying he's not even top 10, but I just don't think he's more skilled than Nog personally. Gotta give props to a big guy who's also very slick and been proving his skill over a longer period of time.

You guys are selling someone short here...

Brock Lesnar has been as dominant as anyone, and he avenged his one fluky loss, just like GSP avenged his fluky loss vs. Serra.

He belongs among the top 10 in the world, especially over a guy like Nog who has looked like dogshit recently until Saturday.

1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor
3. GSP
4. Machida
5. Mike Brown
6. Lesnar
7. Mousasi
8. Penn
9. Henderson
10. Melendez

He's on a 3 fight win streak and 4-1 overall, how is that more dominant than anyone?

 

[Steel Mamba]

I think Lesnar would beat Nog with minimal effort. But that's for another day.

Sometimes you guys get wrapped up in this mythical idea of skillsets and things like technical striking, which admittedly is where the debates come in, but wins and losses should always be #1.

Oh man you're chuggin the Lesnar Kool-Aide over there. Nog wouldn't stand a chance huh? Anyway Ws and Ls is just fine when comparing guys within the same division, but when you're talking about P4P you have to go by skill to determine who's the best because guys in different weight classes will never have the opportunity to fight against the same people. So, how is that a fair or accurate way to compare P4P? When talking P4P who they've fought is only important to justify that their skill has been displayed against top level opponents, but still overall ability and skill is most important here.

Oh and there was nothing fluky about Mir or Serra's win.