The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

The idea that piracy was ever "lost revenue" was a false PR spin copyright owners used to help deter it. They played the moral and sympathy card, despite it being long considered false that piracy was a chief source for lost revenue. Even if it was, you can not determine a pirated item is something that person would have purchased anyway.

Music/Film industry have used this rationale in the court room and failed.

We'll see.

You, me, Fed, and the people in this thread will be ex-pirates come 2/24.

I firmly believe piracy is driven mostly by price point. WWE PPV's are almost never worth what is asked. We'll find out if $9.99 is "fair" or not soon enough.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Prime example, I feel like I get my money's worth with New Japan, so I pay despite knowing I can easily watch 48 hours later for free. For me there is an inherent value in paying to see it live.

I feel like at $9.99, WWE is also giving me something worth my money, so i'll buy instead of watching the hemanthjava feed.

 

[FedEx227]

It is a paradigm shift...they will have to get their core audience adjusted.

I see it ultimately as this company forfeiting some revenue on WM, SS, and the Rumble to have that output spread out throughout the 12 months. Secondary PPVs are shit anyway...basically evens out their distribution of revenue over 12 months instead of waiting for BLACK SUNDAY (WrestleMania Weekend).

With that said, as long as WWE PPVs are available for the typical distributor companies, they will still make money off traditional PPV buys (it won't just die immediately).

So while "WWE Network" might lose a bit up front, I think the company as a whole will be better off.

Totally agree with this part. It will take a year or two but if the WWE is patient with it and lets it breath, it will revolutionize their business and the way they do business.

 

[JimLeavy59]

lol DirectV is threatening to drop WWE ppv's because of this.

 

[FedEx227]

"We don't want to take a percentage of your revenues anymore!"

 

[s@ppisgod]

I think the play here is to load up on the nostalgia offered by the Network. If they can get money from their core fanbase that watch Raw every week and order the occasional PPV/buy DVDs, and add a portion of the old WCW fans/ECW fans/maybe even a few AWA or WCCW fans, they'll be sitting pretty. Those WCW DVDs usually sold really well IIRC.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

lol DirectV is threatening to drop WWE ppv's because of this.

Completely asinine.

This is like getting fired, saying "Fired!? No, I QUIT!", and then tearing up the severance check.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

We'll see.

You, me, Fed, and the people in this thread will be ex-pirates come 2/24.

I firmly believe piracy is driven mostly by price point. WWE PPV's are almost never worth what is asked. We'll find out if $9.99 is "fair" or not soon enough.

I wouldn't simply buy a WWE PPV even if it was $10. I do find the concept of an all-in-one application/streaming service for all of the wrestling under the WWE umbrella plus their library footage to be a real selling point.

For example...I have a Netflix Account, but that doesn't stop me from pirating movies as well. I'm just willing to pay a few bucks for some convenience and quality service, but it doesn't stop me from getting something I want that is available instantaneously.

Similarly, I have a Spotify account...but again, doesn't stop me from pirating albums I want to pirate. There is a convenience and affordability to certain amounts of access I am willing to pay for...the WWE Network App is hitting the notes to get my money similarly to the way Netflix, hulu, and Spotify do.

If HBO and WatchESPN had similar ala carte options, I'd feel the same about them and would easily dish out my money.

The WWE streaming their PPVs in HD via the app just beats out the idea of pirating. I would pay $10 just for access to their library. Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I wouldn't simply buy a WWE PPV even if it was $10. I do find the concept of an all-in-one application/streaming service for all of the wrestling under the WWE umbrella plus their library footage to be a real selling point.

For example...I have a Netflix Account, but that doesn't stop me from pirating movies as well. I'm just willing to pay a few bucks for some convenience and quality service, but it doesn't stop me from getting something I want that is available instantaneously.

Similarly, I have a Spotify account...but again, doesn't stop me from pirating albums I want to pirate. There is a convenience and affordability to certain amounts of access I am willing to pay for...the WWE Network App is hitting the notes to get my money similarly to the way Netflix, hulu, and Spotify do.

If HBO and WatchESPN had similar ala carte options, I'd feel the same about them and would easily dish out my money.

The WWE streaming their PPVs in HD via the app just beats out the idea of pirating. I would pay $10 just for access to their library. Everything else is icing on the cake.

Agree 100%, i'm in the same boat. This is what I mean when I say that this essentially snuffs out piracy, or at minimum really removes a gigantic chunk of it to the point whatever remains is irrelevant.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Long Meltzer piece on WWE Network/UFC Fight Pass

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/10/5294574/evaluating-wwe-network-vs-ufc-fight-pass

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Continuing on the WWE Network tip.

I am very curious what the WWE's internal numbers say is the amount of PPV dollars a willing PPV buyer will average per year.

Their business model looks like, to me, based around the idea of having their already built in consumer base stay in the game for a more consistent year-round model where you'll also bring in casuals throwing in the $10/mo just because its fucking ten bucks and having access to every WWE piece of programming ever (surely, eventually), WCW programming, ECW programming, programming from tons territories, plus access to the monthly PPVs "just because", is a fucking good deal any way you slice it.

Also, for a company like the WWE, to have spent the money on their library like they did, but struggle to this point to truly monetize it, this sounds great to those of us that have wanted access to their awesome library of shit in this kind of format.

NOW...my only concern with the WWE Network.

Vince McMahon has failed at everything he has ever done OTHER than wrestling. This Network sounds almost too good to be true, which makes me think it might be too good to be true and somehow, Vince will fuck it up. Crossing my fingers though, that this will be awesome. They'll get my $60/6mo until it sucks.

 

[FedEx227]

Honestly Larry, judging by his presence at this thing, the way he's acted at various press conferences leading up to it — I don't think he has a whole hell of a lot to do with it anymore.

He's getting old and I don't think he's totally, uh, with it as much as he use to be.

I think he recognizes that and is really starting to admit that aspect of it. Thus, I'm not sure HE can fuck it up. He's hired some good people to handle this and I think they've been happier in recent years with their niche, they are starting to realize and truly feel comfortable in it. It also helps that they are trying to sell themselves as a non-DVRable "sport" to play up to the television companies.

You'll get your zany things here and there, but the online and video presence of the company has always stayed pretty true to the wrestling product.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Honestly Larry, judging by his presence at this thing, the way he's acted at various press conferences leading up to it — I don't think he has a whole hell of a lot to do with it anymore.

He's getting old and I don't think he's totally, uh, with it as much as he use to be.

I think he recognizes that and is really starting to admit that aspect of it. Thus, I'm not sure HE can fuck it up. He's hired some good people to handle this and I think they've been happier in recent years with their niche, they are starting to realize and truly feel comfortable in it. It also helps that they are trying to sell themselves as a non-DVRable "sport" to play up to the television companies.

You'll get your zany things here and there, but the online and video presence of the company has always stayed pretty true to the wrestling product.

Totally agree, but Vince never paid attention to it.

Using the law of "Anything Vince pays attention to turns to shit" (tm Larry)...as long as Vince doesn't pay attention, we're in the clear.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

TNA popped a rating Thursday for Styles/Magnus.

ROH drew over 1,000 for Styles/Strong last weekend.

Styles is showing some worth as a low level draw thanks to TNA letting him go. It takes being LET GO from TNA to draw anything.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Voices of Wrestling ‏@voiceswrestling 12h
I'm just gonna say it. I don't "get" Bray Wyatt, and do not see the upside. -Joe

Voices of Wrestling ‏@voiceswrestling 11h
Expanding on Wyatt,I don't think he can hang in the ring at the main event level, in a company where the main event working standard is high

---

Just a few thoughts on this.

"Joe"...weren't you very high on the Bray Wyatt character when those vignettes first popped up on NXT? Also, weren't you a fan of Husky Harris in-ring? I don't feel like looking it up.

Secondly, I've made my opinion known on Wyatt for a long time.

When those first vignettes showed up for him on NXT...my immediate thought was "its a dud"...however, once he got going in the NXT bubble, I really came around and loved the character and its evolution when he started to use Harper and Rowan.

Sometime around the end of his NXT run as he was about to get the call-up, creative moved the goalpost on his character. He used to have these very subtle promos where he was basically a crazy backwoods preacher type with his "followers" and with some cool vignettes and different ring entrances.

But, like I said, then the goal post moved. The first time he did the latern gimmick, it was pretty cool. I am sure Vince McMahon was there that weekend at NXT and ever since that has been his entire ring entrance and ever since Rowan has been "sheep mask guy". Also, the minute he got the call up he went from a focused, subtle cool character to I have no idea wtf he really is...his promos, once slow and to the point are now just raving looney rants that make no sense at all.

With all of that said...ultimately, I agree...at the end of all of this, I don't see Wyatt being able to hang in the ring at the main event level. The character isn't catching on with me at the WWE level, but perhaps it is with the GenPop, I don't know. But for me, the character has lost its way and subtlety since the call-up and the ancillary stuff (entrance, sheep mask, the quirk of the unit) has grown very stale with me.

This shouldn't be a unit that has one go-to entrance.

The Shield has their signature in-ring entrance, but they are all business...come through the crowd, its awesome and works and unique.

The Wyatts should be mixing it up on the regular.

 

[EmpireWF]

This was broached on FightOpinion as a What If....but if Viacom is able to pony up the big bucks and get the WWE contract later this year, bump off TNA, put a dagger in the heart of the USA Network all the while providing Bellator with a huge lift (along with all of Spike and any other networks they'd move WWE TV content to).

Gonna be a war of a bidding process.

 

[Leftwich]

Voices of Wrestling ‏@voiceswrestling 12h
I'm just gonna say it. I don't "get" Bray Wyatt, and do not see the upside. -Joe

Voices of Wrestling ‏@voiceswrestling 11h
Expanding on Wyatt,I don't think he can hang in the ring at the main event level, in a company where the main event working standard is high

---

Just a few thoughts on this.

"Joe"...weren't you very high on the Bray Wyatt character when those vignettes first popped up on NXT? Also, weren't you a fan of Husky Harris in-ring? I don't feel like looking it up.

Secondly, I've made my opinion known on Wyatt for a long time.

When those first vignettes showed up for him on NXT...my immediate thought was "its a dud"...however, once he got going in the NXT bubble, I really came around and loved the character and its evolution when he started to use Harper and Rowan.

Sometime around the end of his NXT run as he was about to get the call-up, creative moved the goalpost on his character. He used to have these very subtle promos where he was basically a crazy backwoods preacher type with his "followers" and with some cool vignettes and different ring entrances.

But, like I said, then the goal post moved. The first time he did the latern gimmick, it was pretty cool. I am sure Vince McMahon was there that weekend at NXT and ever since that has been his entire ring entrance and ever since Rowan has been "sheep mask guy". Also, the minute he got the call up he went from a focused, subtle cool character to I have no idea wtf he really is...his promos, once slow and to the point are now just raving looney rants that make no sense at all.

With all of that said...ultimately, I agree...at the end of all of this, I don't see Wyatt being able to hang in the ring at the main event level. The character isn't catching on with me at the WWE level, but perhaps it is with the GenPop, I don't know. But for me, the character has lost its way and subtlety since the call-up and the ancillary stuff (entrance, sheep mask, the quirk of the unit) has grown very stale with me.

This shouldn't be a unit that has one go-to entrance.

The Shield has their signature in-ring entrance, but they are all business...come through the crowd, its awesome and works and unique.

The Wyatts should be mixing it up on the regular.

I agree. His in ring stuff is basically the same since he got called up and his promos are just fucking weird. I might be too dumb to understand what he's talking about but most of the time it just sounds like a rant about nothing. I also hate when the E force feeds us shit. Outside of Brodie Lee none of these guys have really paid their dues, especially not Rowan who is god awful in the ring and seems like a real douchebag in person. Now i'm ranting.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Agree with both of you guys.

I liked Husky Harris as a worker from an original NXT perspective, thought he moved well for a big man, but working WWE main events in a different animal altogether from doing 4 minute matches on NXT.

The gimmick has work thin on me. Like larry noted, he just kind of rants about nothing, there is no purpose to his words. He's basically comes off as a guy badly playing a character on Halloween. Rowan & Harper are more believable imo.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

TNAMecca (TNAsylum spinoff site) comments section, RE WrestleKingdom:

"New Japan's fallen a lot in five years - they went from having TNA WORLD CHAMPION Kurt Angle on the show to Rob Conway."

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

TNAMecca (TNAsylum spinoff site) comments section, RE WrestleKingdom:

"New Japan's fallen a lot in five years - they went from having TNA WORLD CHAMPION Kurt Angle on the show to Rob Conway."