Eli Manning...

[Warner2BruceTD]

What kind of conclusion to his career would make you change your mind on Eli's status as a HOFer?

I get the argument that because he was never among the best 4 or 5 QBs in any single season THUS FAR in his career gives you pause. It's the old eye test, with HOFers you should be able to hear the name and instantly say whether they are that kind of player.

Is there even a specific line to cross in that regard?

Just curious, among the QBs of this generation (lets say 21st century). We know surefire HOFers are Favre, Brady and Peyton. Drew Brees is right there because of the stats, too IMO. McNabb?

Is it fair to say guys like Rodgers, Big Ben and Eli, it's just too soon to say they're HOFers?

I think he's close.

I don't think his statistics are HOF worthy, especially for his era. His Super Bowl performances have been good, but not great or legendary.

The best argument for Eli is all of the tough road postseason wins. But even that is watered down these days, with other QB's doing this all the time (Rodgers last year, Big Ben frequently) lately. It used to be a real accomplishment winning on the road in the playoffs, now it's ho hum.

 

[Tailback U]

His stats are not HOF level impressive.

Admit it, you are basing his HOF credentials on one factor....RINGS.

I haven't said he once that he is a hall of famer yet. I've been saying he is on pace to make the hall of fame and that when it's all said and done I think he will make it.

Statistically, he will be in the top 15 of all time in every major statistical category if he hits his career averages in the next 3 years - and he will only be 33.

He will have 2 Super Bowls to back up the stats.

I don't even like Eli, personally, but I give respect where respect is due and I realize where the guy is headed.

 

[Houston]

People take this too seriously, just enjoy the game. Eli Manning is an upper echelon QB who's won 2 superbowls. Why do people honestly care about stupid shit like "elite" tags?

 

[Tailback U]

I think he's close.

I don't think his statistics are HOF worthy, especially for his era. His Super Bowl performances have been good, but not great or legendary.

The best argument for Eli is all of the tough road postseason wins. But even that is watered down these days, with other QB's doing this all the time (Rodgers last year, Big Ben frequently) lately. It used to be a real accomplishment winning on the road in the playoffs, now it's ho hum.

You just find ways to discredit the guy. "His road wins are ho hum. Comebacks nowadays are ho hum. His SB performances have been good but not great or legendary."

You're living in the past old man. The game has changed, we realize that, it's time for you to realize that things aren't the way they used to be and they never will be again. That shouldn't discredit the players today for what they are doing.

Stop being such a negative nancy. You sound like the old fart in the corner that talks about how he hates football nowadays and how it used to be so much tougher back in his day and how nowadays these guys don't play football like they used to.

Yeah we get it, now it's time for you to move on already or quit watching the sport since you get no pleasure out of it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You're still not answering the question.

What else does the guy have to do to prove to the great W2B that he is an elite QB?

I don't know, maybe lead the league in something other than interceptions?

Finish top 3 in the league in something other than interceptions (he has never done this, btw)?

Dominate and be the best QB in the league?

Be one of the three best QB's in the league?

Be one of the five best QB's in the league?

Hall of Fame players, in theory, should dominate the league. Can you tell me with a straight face that Eli has dominated the NFL?

Again, i'm leaning no on this one. Two rings, one ring, no rings.

 

[Champ]

I don't know, maybe lead the league in something other than interceptions?

Finish top 3 in the league in something other than interceptions (he has never done this, btw)?

Dominate and be the best QB in the league?

Be one of the three best QB's in the league?

Be one of the five best QB's in the league?

Hall of Fame players, in theory, should dominate the league. Can you tell me with a straight face that Eli has dominated the NFL?

Again, i'm leaning no on this one. Two rings, one ring, no rings.

1. Holds the NFL record for most TDs in the 4th quarter.
2. Thats not we are saying. We are saying that you should consider him elite.
3. This year.
4. This year.
5. Yes.

Yea no big deal that he won 3 away games to win the superbowl twice.

 

[Tailback U]

I don't know, maybe lead the league in something other than interceptions?

Finish top 3 in the league in something other than interceptions (he has never done this, btw)?

Dominate and be the best QB in the league?

Be one of the three best QB's in the league?

Be one of the five best QB's in the league?

Hall of Fame players, in theory, should dominate the league. Can you tell me with a straight face that Eli has dominated the NFL?

Again, i'm leaning no on this one. Two rings, one ring, no rings.

Ok so Super Bowl rings don't mean anything and seasonal statistics carry more weight than playoff wins and rings and playing smart/clutch football on the biggest stage possible.

I get it now. Thanks.

Like you don't put much value into Super Bowl wins, I don't put much value into empty stats.

Seriously, pick your spot. If he leads in stats, you say the league is watered down now and it's easy to pass. If he wins Super Bowls, you say it's easy to win on the road and it's not as hard as it used to be.

I'm not even arguing with you to change your mind because I know that's not going to happen. If you don't like Eli because you don't like the way he plays QB then just say it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You just find ways to discredit the guy. "His road wins are ho hum. Comebacks nowadays are ho hum. His SB performances have been good but not great or legendary."

You're living in the past old man. The game has changed, we realize that, it's time for you to realize that things aren't the way they used to be and they never will be again. That shouldn't discredit the players today for what they are doing.

Stop being such a negative nancy. You sound like the old fart in the corner that talks about how he hates football nowadays and how it used to be so much tougher back in his day and how nowadays these guys don't play football like they used to.

Yeah we get it, now it's time for you to move on already or quit watching the sport since you get no pleasure out of it.

So let me get this straight...I get no pleasure out of the NFL because I don't think a second ring should get Eli an automatic ticket to Canton?

Nice leap.

Anyway, you are talking Eli up with no context. You keep referring to being Top 15 in various stats. Who cares? Testaverde is Top 10 in everything. Passing numbers are inflated. That stuff matters.

And again, winning on the road and 4th Q comebacks are more commonplace now. Those things don't hold the value they did in the past. That's context for Eli's accomplishments, not clinging to the past. You don't seem to understand context.

Show me where Eli is head and shoulders above his contemporaries. I can show you where he is behind them.

 

[Tailback U]

LOL I already beat you to your post. Whatever man. Goodnight.

 

[EmpireWF]

I'd say this is the first year Eli was (statistically at least) a top 5 QB in the league.

This is all about legacy/HOF style talk.

As far as week to week, NOW talk, there are few guys I'd rather have as my teams QB. I'll take that every day.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not even arguing with you to change your mind because I know that's not going to happen. If you don't like Eli because you don't like the way he plays QB then just say it.

My god. You are the dirt worst.

I don't think a second ring should push him through to the HOF. How many times do i have to say it? Never said I didn't like him, never said he can't be a HOF'er. I've defended him on this board more than most. I just don't like this idea that he won another ring, so that's it, forget everything else, he's in the HOF now. Too simplistic.

 

[Tailback U]

I'd say this is the first year Eli was (statistically at least) a top 5 QB in the league.

This is all about legacy/HOF style talk.

As far as week to week, NOW talk, there are few guys I'd rather have as my teams QB. I'll take that every day.

I'd agree that Eli is a top 5-6 QB. The guys ahead of him?

Brady - HOF
Peyton - HOF
Brees - HOF
Rodgers - Potential HOF?
Big Ben - Potential HOF?
Rivers (arguable)

I don't think he's as good as the top 4 listed here but those guys are all headed to the hall of fame most likely.

No shame in being behind those guys. It shouldn't discredit what Eli has done.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Anyway, this is drifting from my original point, and i'm being put in a position to bash the player when I really was only trying to bash the concept of over valuing what happens in the Super Bowl without the benefit of context.

I'm bowing out. Worship the rings. You guys win.

 

[Tailback U]

My god. You are the dirt worst.

I don't think a second ring should push him through to the HOF. How many times do i have to say it? Never said I didn't like him, never said he can't be a HOF'er. I've defended him on this board more than most. I just don't like this idea that he won another ring, so that's it, forget everything else, he's in the HOF now. Too simplistic.

Whatever man. Like I've been saying, when it is all said and done he will give you the stats, wins, rings, and his heart and soul to try and make your beloved HOF list but because he looks like a retarded kid with down syndrome you still won't put him on it.

 

[Tailback U]

Anyway, this is drifting from my original point, and i'm being put in a position to bash the player when I really was only trying to bash the concept of over valuing what happens in the Super Bowl without the benefit of context.

I'm bowing out. Worship the rings. You guys win.

lol I think we're arguing the same point.

I'm saying his lack of statistical dominance shouldn't negate him from HOF potential. You're saying his Super Bowl rings shouldn't automatically make him a HOF potential.

That's all there is to it, from here we just see how it plays out. I'm just saying he has the potential and is on pace.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Make a convincing argument for Eli's HOF candidacy without using the words "Super Bowl" or "rings".

I bet you can't. Because you would need phrases like "he led the league in this x amount of times", or "he was the best at this", or "he was an elite level player at his position for x amount of time", etc, to do that and it's hard to apply those phrases to Eli Manning.

To me, unless a guy has legendary Super Bowl performances (plural) you should be able to craft a credible HOF argument for a player without even talking about the Super Bowl. You can't do that with Eli, his entire legacy is based on the result of two games, in which he was pretty good, but not even dominant!

That's what I find ridiculous about QB assessment, but it's never going to change.

 

[Houston]

I'd agree that Eli is a top 5-6 QB. The guys ahead of him?

Brady - HOF
Peyton - HOF
Brees - HOF
Rodgers - Potential HOF?
Big Ben - Potential HOF?
Rivers (arguable)

I don't think he's as good as the top 4 listed here but those guys are all headed to the hall of fame most likely.

No shame in being behind those guys. It shouldn't discredit what Eli has done.

Exactly. Don't Rodgers, Brees, and Brady hold almost all of the regular season passing records? I wouldn't hold it against him that he's not hanging with guys who are having some of the best statistical seasons ever. Especially when as you said, they're on their way to the Hall of Fame themselves.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Exactly. Don't Rodgers, Brees, and Brady hold almost all of the regular season passing records? I wouldn't hold it against him that he's not hanging with guys who are having some of the best statistical seasons ever. Especially when as you said, they're on their way to the Hall of Fame themselves.

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

Context.

 

[Primetime]

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

Context.

 

[Houston]

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

It depends on what the HR's are converted to in quarterback terms. Cause if it's plays of 40+ yards, then Eli would be......Mark McGwire?