[360] Gamestop Threatening not to Sell Next Xbox

[spiker]

I understand the benefits of free choice.

 

[SethMode]

I understand the benefits of free choice.

I am enjoying this conversation for the most part, but at times it seems you're being needlessly obtuse. I understand that used games are going to die, and don't see digital only services gouging us because we can only gouge ourselves. What are you arguing with?

 

[spiker]

The option to play or not play is pre-requisite to the discussion. It's not even really the same discussion at all.

I'm debating the choice of Microsoft to go 100% digital and it's affect on pricing, used game market, etc. I'm assuming we're already gaming on the new XBox if we're talking about this. Posing the question "to play or not" is just an attempt to draw me away from the debate about going 100% digital so I'm not entertaining that notion. If you were curious why it seemed I was ignoring that.

 

[spiker]

To give you my personal preference, if XBox goes 100% digital, I will exercise my free choice and not buy that system. I'm crossing my fingers that Sony is smart enough to realize that consumers still do want a physical disc in their design of their new console. In that case, I would buy the new Sony console.

 

[SethMode]

The option to play or not play is pre-requisite to the discussion. It's not even really the same discussion at all.

I'm debating the choice of Microsoft to go 100% digital and it's affect on pricing, used game market, etc. I'm assuming we're already gaming on the new XBox if we're talking about this. Posing the question "to play or not" is just an attempt to draw me away from the debate about going 100% digital so I'm not entertaining that notion. If you were curious why it seemed I was ignoring that.

But that's silly regardless. Why even debate the topic then? You're assuming that losing used games will increase prices, I'm saying, it won't. The point of buying or not buying is much more relevant than discussing used games at all, because USED GAMES ARE DYING AND WILL EVENTUALLY DIE. Did you worry that music costs would increase when people started ditching CDs in favor of digital?

You are arguing for something that is dying, just like CDs died and DVDs are dying. Why waste time arguing for something that won't be here in 10 years?

 

[spiker]

The only way the used game market dies is if there is 100% digital distribution and that's because there's nothing to sell used anymore. As long as a physical disc exists, there is a market for used games. I can still find used CDs and DVDs on eBay or at my local Disc Replay. The market for used CDs and DVDs is not dead at all.

 

[SethMode]

Well, I think this discussion has run its course. Good talking with you Spiker. I disagree with your overall assessment, but time will tell. Truth be told, I don't think MS has the balls to release a digital only platform.

 

[spiker]

Well, I think this discussion has run its course. Good talking with you Spiker. I disagree with your overall assessment, but time will tell. Truth be told, I don't think MS has the balls to release a digital only platform.

Well I agree with you there. LOL

 

[BrntO4Life]

Except that GS is the biggest games retailer in the country and it's not even close. Not a company that you want to piss off when you sell a game console.

I am willing to bet Microsoft loses very little, if any profits at all, from not selling at Gamestop. If people want the Xbox 720 badly enough, they'll go to every other retailer that has it.

Nobody is going to not buy the console they want because some shitty retailer won't play ball. Besides, all of the Gamestops I know of are within a mile of a Best Buy. People will just go to BB instead.

 

[IamMedellin]

Except that GS is the biggest games retailer in the country and it's not even close. Not a company that you want to piss off when you sell a game console.

seriously? Gamestop is Big but it's a known Fact that used games sales drive their business, if they refuse to stock the Next Xbox they are alienating a Huge part of their market. If any1 can find the data plz check the % of 360 hardware/software sales that makes up GameStop's business.

Considering the Marketing Blitz that Microsoft will unleash with a New console, the fact that it Wont be available at GameStop will hurt them more than it hurts M$...

at the end of the day it's going to be about who's Bigger, Microsoft or Gamestop.
I mean We all know console fanboys, but retailer loyalty? Gamestop has more to lose with this move...

 

[Diivox]

Give me a cross platform discless device, and I buy a console for the first time in generations.

I have spent thousands of dollars on my steam account and I dont regret it. I am SO glad the age of having to fuck with a disc and a cd key are over. I bought Diablo 2 4 fucking times because I kept losing my CD keys. and as far as consoles go, the fuck do I want a used game for? its already kind of scratched, im only saving 5 bucks, and I have to put up with the dickbag behind the counter trying to sell me on a similar title, a pre order for another similar title, and the fucking magazine.

all I want is cross platform gaming out of the next gen. I have played something like 200 hours of NBA 2k12 on my PC - with an xbox controller. I would have loved to have played with people on the forum, and theres no reason for me not to. I can see the difference in shooters, because mouse and keyboard is vastly superior aiming, but if I could play Halo with xbox users, and the only caveat was that I had to use a controller, I would also do that shit all day. if discless / download based is what it takes (which it probably does to feasibly do a unified platform, since you only design one platform, and dont run into problems treating one end like a second class citizen), sign me up for the pre order.

 

[Diivox]

seriously? Gamestop is Big but it's a known Fact that used games sales drive their business, if they refuse to stock the Next Xbox they are alienating a Huge part of their market. If any1 can find the data plz check the % of 360 hardware/software sales that makes up GameStop's business.

you really dont even need any kind of advanced metrics there. its simple math. Gamestop pays you pennies on the dollar for your trade ins - whats the best you will get, 20, for a brand new game? - and then jacks up the price 20, 25 dollars to 5 bucks less than new. People go, hey, thats 5 bucks, its better than like, not saving 5 bucks, so ill take it used. and Gamestop profits like a motherfucker, instead of paying the game developer close to full price.

ive worked in retail environments before, retail environments where my employee discount was getting shit at cost. there is next to no profit margin on a brand new game for gamestop.

You could almost make the argument that Microsoft would actually SAVE money by the anti used game stuff if Gamestop cut them off. MS could guarantee that anyone who developed for their console would recieve 100% of the profits from their games. they could charge a fortune for licensing and the developers would still make more money than they did with gamestop suckering kids into trading 2 or 3 games for one + tax.

 

[Sven Draconian]

I'm surprised that more people aren't looking at the big picture of this. Especially spiker.

All digital release is going to do a few things. Not on Day 1, but within a few years....

1) Games will become cheaper. Smaller companies, who do not have the capital for a large production run and wide distribution are going to jump into the market. They will make better games, and offer them at cheaper prices. This will force the big boys to live with diminishing sales (in which you are simply buying the cheaper game) or drop their prices (which gives you the cheaper game).

2) Cross-console gaming/no consoles/new consoles will emerge. With the onset of the facebook games (Words with friends ect...), the idea of only being able to play online with half of your friends because some are Xbox, some are PS3 are finished. Obviously there are still some road blocks, but that is the future.

Again, this will probably be pioneered by the smaller companies who are looking to grab a corner of the market.

3) Digital rentals.... seriously? This hasn't happened yet. brb I need to learn how to code that shit.

I think a good paralell is the craft beer industry. In '74 it became legal to homebrew beer, by the 80s we see the first wave of craft beers. Stagnates a bit in the 90s, then takes off in the '00s, and now it's "arrived." so to speak. You can get craft beer at just about any bar and in just about any store.

The smaller game companies are going to follow a very similar model (without all the BS that goes with physical distribution and some out-dated laws).

 

[Twigg4075]

I honestly don't know if I would buy an all-digital console. I like actually owning my games.

Only about 50% of 360 owners are online so MS would be seriously fucking themselves. Not to mention that all the soccer moms wouldn't have a clue about this shit, "But where can I buy the games?" I think full digital is a long time away.

 

[spiker]

I understand that full digital invites indie game makers to the scene. We're already seeing this in PS3/360 era. That's fine for interesting new concepts in gaming. And those games are usually cheaper too. It's great.

There are some games that are going to be dominated by the big guys. We're all sports gamers here, right? EA is a juggernaut in this arena. Small guys can't get in this market because of licensing. They are going to continue to bone us in ways we haven't even thought of yet.

Or any other A rated franchise really. The prices aren't going down on the next all digital Halo, the next GTA, the next Mass Effect. We're still going to get bitch slapped by those publishers. Used games push down the price of those games faster because people like me beat them and sell them. As soon as I finish ME3 here, that shit is going up for sale on Gamestaq/eBay to recoup most of my cost. On the other side, someone buys the game cheaper than $60, which is what it retails for brand new.

Here's an example of that: I bought LA Noire for $40 used about two weeks after it was released. Played it for about a month or two before I beat it. Then I sold it used for about $35. All together I spent about $5 on my LA Noire. I am who the game companies hate. There's no way I could have done that under an all digital market place.

I do this with almost all of my games and so do a lot of other people.

 

[Maynard]

I honestly don't know if I would buy an all-digital console. I like actually owning my games.

Only about 50% of 360 owners are online so MS would be seriously fucking themselves. Not to mention that all the soccer moms wouldn't have a cluw about this shit, "But where can I buy the games?" I think full digital is a long time away.

you are the type who will get screwed. you are a collecter so it would have a bigger impact on you. but really its no different than any other media format. im sure those folks who collected 8 tracks or albums really hated the CD.

I do this with almost all of my games and so do a lot of other people.

i do that too. but there is nothing you can do to stop the change. its been brewing for a long time and we all knew it would happen. the used market will be dead. on one hand you lose the ability to buy and sell used games, but that is really the only con aside from collecting.

the pros, imo, out weigh the cons...but that doesnt even matter. what matters is catering to the youth for the future. todays market is apps via the iphone or related device. its what kids are growing up on today and it is the future of gaming for the next 20 years.

those of use in our 30ies are fossils to the gaming world. they dont want us, and they dont care about us. they care about those 12-18 year olds who will be spending the bucks for the next 20 years

 

[BrntO4Life]

Wait, does Twigg think soccer moms haven't heard of Best Buy?

 

[IamMedellin]

Wait, does Twigg think soccer moms haven't heard of Best Buy?

I hope not, cuz thats just plain stupid...

I think he was making a point that if it is an all digital console, soccer moms wont be quick to the fact that they cant buy physical discs...

though If they are Soccer moms, wouldnt they then get nagged for XBL gift cards instead of Games much like kids now Nag their parents for iTunes gift cards instead of CDs?

 

[SethMode]

Twigg can barely figure out the XBL dashboard himself, so I'm not surprised he thinks a soccer mom would have trouble :smug:

 

[leaffan]

I understand that full digital invites indie game makers to the scene. We're already seeing this in PS3/360 era. That's fine for interesting new concepts in gaming. And those games are usually cheaper too. It's great.

There are some games that are going to be dominated by the big guys. We're all sports gamers here, right? EA is a juggernaut in this arena. Small guys can't get in this market because of licensing. They are going to continue to bone us in ways we haven't even thought of yet.

Or any other A rated franchise really. The prices aren't going down on the next all digital Halo, the next GTA, the next Mass Effect. We're still going to get bitch slapped by those publishers. Used games push down the price of those games faster because people like me beat them and sell them. As soon as I finish ME3 here, that shit is going up for sale on Gamestaq/eBay to recoup most of my cost. On the other side, someone buys the game cheaper than $60, which is what it retails for brand new.

Here's an example of that: I bought LA Noire for $40 used about two weeks after it was released. Played it for about a month or two before I beat it. Then I sold it used for about $35. All together I spent about $5 on my LA Noire. I am who the game companies hate. There's no way I could have done that under an all digital market place.

I do this with almost all of my games and so do a lot of other people.

That is a false statement. Used games if anything kept prices high because companies like activision and ea kept AAA games (COD, Madden ect ect) at a very high price for quite a long time to make up for the used game sales lost they would incur. Things like the online pass codes are starting to thwart this though.

Also about your used game stuff.

What you will see (now whether or not this will actually happen is still very much up in there air) are games coming out that are lower in price when they are new and then will be dropping in price much quicker because once the market hype has died down they really just have to lower the price on the digital copy and they will sell more units after the fact. This has been proven as a very good sales method.

Using LA Noire for your example is perfect. You paid $40 for a used copy of it a few weeks ago. I bought it brand new off steam at christmas time for $10 and thats DLC and all. Granted that was part of their steam sale but thats the perks you get for having digital media. Its still selling for $29.99 and lets face it at that price thats very affoardable and very good. There's no way you could recoupe lets say even $20 of that but then again I didn't have to drive all the way out somewhere and spend money on gas and then drive back to buy a game and then spend more money on either bringing it to gamestop or selling it on ebay. Which at the end of the day is evening everything out your just not thinking of those costs.

One of the problems with the gaming industry right now is used gaming and how people are just buying games and then returning them and essentially just renting them out. Prices "should" drop in an all digital world and games should become more affoardable to people because the cost to produce the cds and everything is essentially gone.

What MS should really do is come up with some sort of rental process to help people like spiker here deal with the fact they do not want to pay full price for a game but still want to play it.