NFL's Top 100 Discussion

[killgod]

If the lack of 300 yard passing games is the best negative you guys can find on the guy, then I think he's doing alright. Roethlisberger, the QB Freeman gets compared to, only had two 300 yard games in his first 2 years in the league. Why are 300 yard games so important anyway? Is he hurting your fantasy team? Call me when the league makes rule changes to award points for 300 yard games. When J Free went 21-26 against Seattle with 5 TD's, I guess it was an unimpressive game because he only threw for 237. :edlover:

He was in the top half of the league in pass attempts and yards. Going to per game numbers penalizes Freeman for starting and playing in every game, something the guys who pushed Freeman to the bottom part of the league in per game averages didn't do.

I like how you selectively take the weakest argument of many in a post and then jump on it, ignoring everything else that's been said.

lol @ throwing for 5 TD's vs Seattle. Would that be the 27th ranked Seattle pass D with giving up the 2nd most Pass TD's (31) in the NFL?

Pat yoself on the motha fuckin back Mr Freeman.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I read this and I had to respond. I don't know and really don't give a fuck if Freeman is a top 100 player or not, but are you really trying to compare the year Mcfadden had vs Freeman?

McFadden Rushed for 1150 yards, almost 1700 total yards, 10 TD's and also led the league in runs of 20+ yards, all while splitting carries for a good part of the year. He also put up these numbers in 13 games.

Freeman had a good year. He did what he was asked to do, which was manage the game and don't make any mistakes. But how does a starting QB go an entire year without a 300 yard passing game in today's NFL? He was in the bottom half of the league in pass attempts and yards per game. Which tells me the passing game wasn't even the focal point of the offense.

It's a silly argument.

Nope, that's not the context in which his comment was made. Therefore your response was a complete waste of time to write, and read.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

To his credit, Freeman had several come from behind wins and 2-minute drill wins. But you are correct, no matter how bigbucs wants to spin it, this was a run first team (especially when Blount established himself as the primary back) who for the most part played close to the vest and tried to win close games.

I never saw Freeman dominate a game. He was never the best player on the field. McFadden, fwiw, had several dominant performances (especially early in the season) and took over games. McFadden's best games shit on Freeman's best games, and he was the best RB in the league the first half of the season. I'm comfortable with him being top 100.

Again, Freeman did a nice job, but I find it hard to believe he can repeat the same success, simply based on normalization of some of his statistics, such as as his TD/INT and red zone TO rate. And when you strip away some of those impressive numbers, what do you have? A game manager who doesn't have dominant performances who is never the best player on the field. You can't say that about the other top QB's. He isn't there yet.

McFadden is legit. I was starting to suspect him of having no heart. I had him on my fantasy team this year, and cut him after he got hurt against Houston in week 3 or 4. I honestly felt like he was going to piss me off all year long with hampered injuries, and average games. I did not expect the year he had, at all. I actually ended up with LeGarrette Blount, no joke. I'll be drafting McFadden next year if I can get him.

 

[Blick]

I like how you selectively take the weakest argument of many in a post and then jump on it, ignoring everything else that's been said.

Point me to the stronger argument. There isn't one. Senser and shag both made the 300 yard game argument. It's the best statistical argument there is.

And everyone in here has ignored things that have been said.

lol @ throwing for 5 TD's vs Seattle. Would that be the 27th ranked Seattle pass D with giving up the 2nd most Pass TD's (31) in the NFL?

lulz I know. Fuckin bum couldn't even throw for 300+ on them either.

Congrats on missing the point.

 

[Blick]

Also, did you guys ever think that the Bucs were more of a running team because that's what their offensive line does better? Freeman was pressured on a larger % of his dropbacks than every other QB in the league except for Jay Cutler. And Freeman was only sacked 28 times, compared to 52 times for Cutler.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/16/pressure-reveals/

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I'm kinda done talking about Freeman. I think he's worthy of consideration but going 10+ pages talking about the guy makes me sick and tired of it already.

There is plenty of crap to discuss.

Take Frank Gore here. Before the season started I thought Gore was a top 5 RB in the league. I wonder how much his injuries have effected his stock.

Also WTF is Woodley doing so damn low on the list, and just barely above Lance Briggs? No way, he should have more room between himself and Briggs IMO.

 

[killgod]

Point me to the stronger argument. There isn't one. Senser and shag both made the 300 yard game argument. It's the best statistical argument there is.

And everyone in here has ignored things that have been said.



lulz I know. Fuckin bum couldn't even throw for 300+ on them either.

Congrats on missing the point.

The stronger argument was the McFadden comparision and how he dominated in a way Freeman didn't. Derp?

If you're going to miss the point, why can't I be just as ignorant?


P.S. See how I did that without multiple quotes? This VSN trend is getting ridiculous.

 

[FirstTimer]

The stronger argument was the McFadden comparision and how he dominated in a way Freeman didn't. Derp?



P.S. See how I did that without multiple quotes? This VSN trend is getting ridiculous.

Fuck you.

 

[Blick]

The stronger argument was the McFadden comparision and how he dominated in a way Freeman didn't. Derp?

If you're going to miss the point, why can't I be just as ignorant?


P.S. See how I did that without multiple quotes? This VSN trend is getting ridiculous.

I'm not in the McFadden argument. He's better and more deserving to be on the list than Freeman. That's why I left that part out.

Should've taken your own advice on post #135 on page 9.

 

[killgod]

I'm not in the McFadden argument. He's better and more deserving to be on the list than Freeman. That's why I left that part out.

Should've taken your own advice on post #135 on page 9.

More or less done in mocking fashion, I mean I was MQing 3-4 words at a time wasn't I? lol.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Also, did you guys ever think that the Bucs were more of a running team because that's what their offensive line does better? Freeman was pressured on a larger % of his dropbacks than every other QB in the league except for Jay Cutler. And Freeman was only sacked 28 times, compared to 52 times for Cutler.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/16/pressure-reveals/

I understand what you are getting at, but Cutler was a special case last year. There were times he had literally one second before he was on his back. The Bears would max protect, and it would still look like a Madden '05 nano blitz. I thought Cutler was dead a few times during the Giants game. The 2010 Bears had the worst offensive live I've ever seen, and I watched Marc Bulger's career wither up and die behind the patchwork Rams line for 3 years.

 

[FirstTimer]

I understand what you are getting at, but Cutler was a special case last year. There were times he had literally one second before he was on his back. The Bears would max protect, and it would still look like a Madden '05 nano blitz. I thought Cutler was dead a few times during the Giants game. The 2010 Bears had the worst offensive live I've ever seen, and I watched Marc Bulger's career wither up and die behind the patchwork Rams line for 3 years.

Don't tell that to the meatballs in Chicago who questioned his toughness.

 

[Blick]

Agreed on Cutler. Also thought it was unfair of everybody who blasted him for his knee injury.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Agreed on Cutler. Also thought it was unfair of everybody who blasted him for his knee injury.

What was the outcome of the knee injury? I don't remember much after the loss. Did he have surgery? Last I heard he had a slight tear in one of his ligaments or something, but I'm not sure if that's valid.

I recently saw this game on NFL replay, and he didn't seem to limp or wince at all. His facial expression was as if it were a minor sprain that he could have played on. I can see why many people questioned his toughness. I just doubt he would have sat out if it wasn't really bothering him though.

 

[Blick]

What was the outcome of the knee injury? I don't remember much after the loss. Did he have surgery? Last I heard he had a slight tear in one of his ligaments or something, but I'm not sure if that's valid.

I recently saw this game on NFL replay, and he didn't seem to limp or wince at all. His facial expression was as if it were a minor sprain that he could have played on. I can see why many people questioned his toughness. I just doubt he would have sat out if it wasn't really bothering him though.

FirstTimer knows better than I do I'm sure, but I think it was an MCL tear, and those don't require surgery.

I had the same injury in high school. It doesn't hurt that bad. I half limped half jogged off the field when it happened. The trainer wouldn't let me go back in the game. I stood on the sidelines without crutches, ice, or pain. I was able to walk around and probably could have done some stationary bike if it was available. The issue for Cutler was lateral movement among NFL athletes...completely different story.

 

[FirstTimer]

What was the outcome of the knee injury? I don't remember much after the loss. Did he have surgery? Last I heard he had a slight tear in one of his ligaments or something, but I'm not sure if that's valid.

I recently saw this game on NFL replay, and he didn't seem to limp or wince at all. His facial expression was as if it were a minor sprain that he could have played on. I can see why many people questioned his toughness. I just doubt he would have sat out if it wasn't really bothering him though.

Medically speaking a sprain is a tear.

When people talk about a torn ACL they typically mean a complete rupture.

Cutler didn't have surgery.

FirstTimer knows better than I do I'm sure, but I think it was an MCL tear, and those don't require surgery.

I had the same injury in high school. It doesn't hurt that bad. I half limped half jogged off the field when it happened. The trainer wouldn't let me go back in the game. I stood on the sidelines without crutches, ice, or pain. I was able to walk around and probably could have done some stationary bike if it was available. The issue for Cutler was lateral movement among NFL athletes...completely different story.

Pretty much this. The issue is the stability of the knee. Between having to avoid NFL level athletes and the Bears offensive line Cutler would have been evern more of a sitting duck back there. The Bears actually weren't even going to let him finish the first half or start the second half on the knee.

I just found it funny that all season Bears fans watched the guy get murdered behind that line then act shocked when he actually got hurt and couldn't continue.

 

[Senser81]

For a person who cant comprehend "Top 100 players of 2011" your sure as hell act like you know it all.

You just sat up here and argued me down about T.O. being on the list and why is he higher than McFadden. You gave me a million reasons why McFadden should be on the list and why he should be higher than T.O. after one fucking good season.

valid. awaits response opcorn:

Are you people retarded? Seriously.

We already went over this. If the list was based on career achievement, then TO should be higher. If its just based on last season, then McFadden should be higher than TO. Its an incredibly basic point. There is essentially no argument...no one would say TO has had less of a career than McFadden, and no one would say TO's 2010 season was better than McFadden's 2010 season (except BigBucs).

 

[Senser81]

Point me to the stronger argument. There isn't one. Senser and shag both made the 300 yard game argument. It's the best statistical argument there is.

No, the best statistical argument is to compare Josh Freeman's stats to Matt Cassel's stats.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Are you people retarded? Seriously.

We already went over this. If the list was based on career achievement, then TO should be higher. If its just based on last season, then McFadden should be higher than TO. Its an incredibly basic point. There is essentially no argument...no one would say TO has had less of a career than McFadden, and no one would say TO's 2010 season was better than McFadden's 2010 season (except BigBucs).

This obviously went way over your head.

The main point of BigBucs post was to question why you would trash Freeman for having only 1 good season and a sub-par rookie year, while at the sae time, being so quick to jump on McFaddens nutsack and defend him after he had 2 sub-par years and 1 good year. The point of BigBucs post, and the point I'm patiently waiting a response for, is why are you not consistent on this? 1 good year is 1 good year. You can't have it both ways. Either both McFadden and Freeman don't belong, or they do. Which is it?

For a person who cant comprehend "Top 100 players of 2011" your sure as hell act like you know it all.

You just sat up here and argued me down about T.O. being on the list and why is he higher than McFadden. You gave me a million reasons why McFadden should be on the list and why he should be higher than T.O. after one fucking good season.

As soon as it was officially revealed that Free was on the list you immediately started to shit on him. Meanwhile you are telling me McFadden is one of the leagues best players after one season while doing everything you can to discredit Free. And somehow Im supposed to believe you liked him.

You are ready to come out guns blazing making a case for McFadden being a top 100 player as a RB but Freeman needs to put up another season as one of the top rated QBs in the league for you to give him your blessing?

Please shut the fuck up.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

No, the best statistical argument is to compare Josh Freeman's stats to Matt Cassel's stats.

Josh Freeman doesn't play anything like Cassel IMO. After watching both play, would you say Cassel is the best QB to compare Freeman to in terms of skill set and play styles? I think Freeman is more akin to Big Ben's skillset and playing style, don't you?

Just so you know, this question isn't posed in anyway to be argumentative. Casual conversation here my man. I'm looking for a real conversation, not an emotion debate. Not trying to troll you or anything like that.