VICK RELEASED

[Archer]

He doesn't "deserve" anything. Choices have consequences. No one owes Mike Vick a try out and he doesn't "deserve" anything.

Il agree with you. I was wrong , he doesnt DESERVE a chance. But i hope he does personally . Maybe im a sucker but im a person who beleives in second chances .

This is my last post on this tho.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Doesn't matter about what he did in the past cause he paid for it, but you still can't help but feel sorry for the guy. Yeah, he made a dog fighting operation, but he paid for it and paid for it severely. I mean the guy filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, which goes to show you how bad it went. I think he learned his lesson and I want to see him back in action.

You might feel sympathy, but I'm sorry, I simply don't. Mike Vick is suffering the consequences of his own decisions. I don't think the time he spent in jail was excessive, given that the man was running a criminal conspiracy. Yes, he had to file bankruptsy, but again, it was from the consequences of his actions.

 

[The Messenger]

Archer, Vick is a horrible QB lol. There's no disputing that. Maybe horrible is exaggerating it, but at the NFL level I wouldn't even call him average.

The thing about Roddy White with Vick is that Vick was horrible for White's development. Yes he dropped passes, but so do a lot of young WRs. It's like being inconsistent in the NBA as a rookie, it usually happens. The thing about Vick hindering Roddy White is that Vick isn't a WR's QB. Vick is a TE's QB. So many times Vick would skip the passing routes and either scramble or throw the quick check downs to Alge Crumpler.

How can you say Vick didn't hold Roddy White back, when in White's first season without Vick, and with Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich throwing him the ball, White went from averaging 30 catches, 475 yards, and 1.5 touchdowns a season to 83 catches, 1202 yards, and 6 touchdowns. Then the very next season, with a rookie quarterback under center, White had 88 catches, 1382 yards, and 7 touchdowns?

There's no doubt Vick could create stuff with his feet, and in the Pittsburgh game which I watched, can lead a team from behind. However, there's a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL that can do that, and you picked one very rare occasion. Vick wasn't made a West Coast quarterback until a couple seasons in, and that was half of Vick's fault because he admitted he wanted to prove he could throw the ball, and it was proven that he couldn't. Same thing with Vince Young, he tries to hard to prove he can and he just can't.

Before Vick's arrest, that Atlanta Falcons team was Vick's. Do you actually believe Jim Mora Jr. could lay down the law to Vick that he had to become this passing phenom or he was out and Schaub would be the franchise QB? Hell no.

 

[The Messenger]

Archer, Vick is a horrible QB lol. There's no disputing that. Maybe horrible is exaggerating it, but at the NFL level I wouldn't even call him average.

The thing about Roddy White with Vick is that Vick was horrible for White's development. Yes he dropped passes, but so do a lot of young WRs. It's like being inconsistent in the NBA as a rookie, it usually happens. The thing about Vick hindering Roddy White is that Vick isn't a WR's QB. Vick is a TE's QB. So many times Vick would skip the passing routes and either scramble or throw the quick check downs to Alge Crumpler.

How can you say Vick didn't hold Roddy White back, when in White's first season without Vick, and with Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich throwing him the ball, White went from averaging 30 catches, 475 yards, and 1.5 touchdowns a season to 83 catches, 1202 yards, and 6 touchdowns. Then the very next season, with a rookie quarterback under center, White had 88 catches, 1382 yards, and 7 touchdowns?

There's no doubt Vick could create stuff with his feet, and in the Pittsburgh game which I watched, can lead a team from behind. However, there's a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL that can do that, and you picked one very rare occasion. Vick wasn't made a West Coast quarterback until a couple seasons in, and that was half of Vick's fault because he admitted he wanted to prove he could throw the ball, and it was proven that he couldn't. Same thing with Vince Young, he tries to hard to prove he can and he just can't.

Before Vick's arrest, that Atlanta Falcons team was Vick's. Do you actually believe Jim Mora Jr. could lay down the law to Vick that he had to become this passing phenom or he was out and Schaub would be the franchise QB? Hell no.

 

[Archer]

Like i said im done arguing about this one , wel wait and see what happens when or if he comes back to the nfl.

 

[Bear Pand]

Over/Under on number of ppl who give up their season tickets when Vick gets signed to their team?

People are way too sensitive, if he served his sentence let him show if he can still be an average qb.

 

[ChemTheThriller]

Oh thank God! I'd love to see Michael Vick get out, take a very good defense, and a very good running game, and blow ass in the playoffs again. I'd also like to see his great passing skills, ya know like when he completes every single pass to his TE and RBs? EXCITMENT!

I agree with that one guy (forget who it was), Vick held Roddy White back.

Ya so? It happens every where... Are the Arizona Cardinals idiots or evil for holding back Edge James? No...

Also Roddy white was a rookie when he played with vick, last I recall players got better with experience, or are they all Pro bowlers from their rookie season?

And Vick was suspended by the league from the day his dog fighting leaked, he didn't go to jail til like a year later... SO... He was suspended from playing in the NFL for over a year + he did jail time... He has done his time... Let a team sign him, have him play in the pre-season start a QB controvesry then the starter plays bad vick takes the reigns and runs with him... literally.

 

[Point Blank]

It's been real Mr. Vick. It sucks that this whole situation happened. The dude was still exciting as hell to watch. If does get picked up, it will be weird seeing him not in a Falcons uni. I give him the best of luck.

I'm not even going to get into the Vick arguments from the previous pages..:laugh:

 

[ChemTheThriller]

How can you say Vick didn't hold Roddy White back, when in White's first season without Vick, and with Joey Harrington and Byron Leftwich throwing him the ball, White went from averaging 30 catches, 475 yards, and 1.5 touchdowns a season to 83 catches, 1202 yards, and 6 touchdowns. Then the very next season, with a rookie quarterback under center, White had 88 catches, 1382 yards, and 7 touchdowns?
.

Hmmm Sounds like a team that was #1 rushing while a certain QB was there that turned into a team playing from behind all the time that...


Pretty sure that's why his numbers are like that...

 

[Bigpapa42]

Ya so? It happens every where... Are the Arizona Cardinals idiots or evil for holding back Edge James? No...

Also Roddy white was a rookie when he played with vick, last I recall players got better with experience, or are they all Pro bowlers from their rookie season?

And Vick was suspended by the league from the day his dog fighting leaked, he didn't go to jail til like a year later... SO... He was suspended from playing in the NFL for over a year + he did jail time... He has done his time... Let a team sign him, have him play in the pre-season start a QB controvesry then the starter plays bad vick takes the reigns and runs with him... literally.

You might want to check your dates again, Pepp. The story broke in April 2007. Charges were filed in July. Vick plead guilty in August, having his guilty plea accepted on August 27th. Though the actual sentence was not handed down until December of 2007, Vick was in federal custody from the point where his guilty plea was entered, with the time served up to the sentencing counting against his sentence. The NFL suspension started basically just after (literally hours, if I remember) after the guilty plea in August. As Vick was already in federal custody, that suspension was not what kept him from playing in the NFL that season. Therefore, the leagues suspension has not prevented Mike Vick from playing a single game thus far. So no, he has not paid any penalty to the league thus far.

Its one thing to think the league shouldn't impose any penalty of their own. That's fine - its an opinion. But as for them already having done so, no.

 

[The Messenger]

Ya so? It happens every where... Are the Arizona Cardinals idiots or evil for holding back Edge James? No...

Also Roddy white was a rookie when he played with vick, last I recall players got better with experience, or are they all Pro bowlers from their rookie season?

And Vick was suspended by the league from the day his dog fighting leaked, he didn't go to jail til like a year later... SO... He was suspended from playing in the NFL for over a year + he did jail time... He has done his time... Let a team sign him, have him play in the pre-season start a QB controvesry then the starter plays bad vick takes the reigns and runs with him... literally.

Lol @ Arizona holding back Edge. Edge is washed up. I know Zona throws 100 times a game, but Edge couldn't get it done even when he got 25+ carries a game. He's washed up and it's sad to see. He's on his way out.

Roddy had 2 years with Vick, not just his rookie season. There is no explanation what-so-ever for White's numbers literally tripling the very first year without Vick.

Yes, I know Atlanta played from behind two seasons ago, so naturally you will pass a lot. However, last season Atlanta had a playoff team with a great running game, and Roddy White had an even better season.

I know, he's getting better, progressing blah blah and that's gonna happen, but you can't sit here and tell me Vick didn't hold down Roddy White. Vick, over his 6 seasons in the NFL, has never had a good season with any WR. Let's not just go by stats, look at the games. I know the talent was exactly great at the receiver position, but other quarterbacks have done a lot more with a lot less.

But let's put stats aside, you go back and watch the games throughout Vick's career. He simply isn't a WR's QB, and everyone knows that. He likes to create plays with his feet, and when all else fails he goes for his check downs.

And lol @ the guy who points out the obvious. "Vick didn't plow over people so muscle means nothing." Nah... really? My point was, Vick is working out and staying in shape in prison. He isn't sitting around all day. If you think I thought Vick used to plow people over like Jerome Bettis then you're wrong. My little sister would know that.

 

[ChemTheThriller]

You might want to check your dates again, Pepp. The story broke in April 2007. Charges were filed in July. Vick plead guilty in August, having his guilty plea accepted on August 27th. Though the actual sentence was not handed down until December of 2007, Vick was in federal custody from the point where his guilty plea was entered, with the time served up to the sentencing counting against his sentence. The NFL suspension started basically just after (literally hours, if I remember) after the guilty plea in August. As Vick was already in federal custody, that suspension was not what kept him from playing in the NFL that season. Therefore, the leagues suspension has not prevented Mike Vick from playing a single game thus far. So no, he has not paid any penalty to the league thus far.

Its one thing to think the league shouldn't impose any penalty of their own. That's fine - its an opinion. But as for them already having done so, no.

I thought I read/heard somewhere that the time he was indited on charges he was suspended by the NFL and even though it wasn't the leagues suspension that made him miss time, they were still going to count it...

 

[The Messenger]

Vick will be back with 8 games to go next year, that's my belief.

 

[ChemTheThriller]

Lol @ Arizona holding back Edge. Edge is washed up. I know Zona throws 100 times a game, but Edge couldn't get it done even when he got 25+ carries a game. He's washed up and it's sad to see. He's on his way out.

Roddy had 2 years with Vick, not just his rookie season. There is no explanation what-so-ever for White's numbers literally tripling the very first year without Vick.

Yes, I know Atlanta played from behind two seasons ago, so naturally you will pass a lot. However, last season Atlanta had a playoff team with a great running game, and Roddy White had an even better season.

I know, he's getting better, progressing blah blah and that's gonna happen, but you can't sit here and tell me Vick didn't hold down Roddy White. Vick, over his 6 seasons in the NFL, has never had a good season with any WR. Let's not just go by stats, look at the games. I know the talent was exactly great at the receiver position, but other quarterbacks have done a lot more with a lot less.

But let's put stats aside, you go back and watch the games throughout Vick's career. He simply isn't a WR's QB, and everyone knows that. He likes to create plays with his feet, and when all else fails he goes for his check downs.

And lol @ the guy who points out the obvious. "Vick didn't plow over people so muscle means nothing." Nah... really? My point was, Vick is working out and staying in shape in prison. He isn't sitting around all day. If you think I thought Vick used to plow people over like Jerome Bettis then you're wrong. My little sister would know that.

You quote me, reply on each point yet miss it completely lol...

The point to bring Edge up was, the fact that in certain offenses someone is always being held back, it's the way football is... If you play on a team that doesn't blitz a lot but have a all star blitzing LB in the making but that's just not your scheme...

If you pass 100 times a game the RBs are all being held back, if you run 100 times a game the WRs/TE are being held back from their max production... that's how it works...

Your right he is not a WRs QB, but we all knew that... a WRs QB is a peyton manning, timing, putting the ball right on the money...

But I personally don't care if he wins, he wins...

If he was to come to Arizona, Fitzgerlad and Boldings Recs dropped to 45 a season but we won the SB... I would thank Vick for being the reason we won the SB...

And honestly if the lions were to lets say draft 2 first round OL then grab Defense for the rest of the draft and pick vick up... I bet they win 6-7 games NEXT season...

But if your all about personal stats fuck that... go 2-14 and have C.Johnson get 100 Rec.

 

[Bigpapa42]

I thought I read/heard somewhere that the time he was indited on charges he was suspended by the NFL and even though it wasn't the leagues suspension that made him miss time, they were still going to count it...

The official league suspension started after his guilty plea in August. If he was "informally" suspended prior to that, its possible they "count it". But being suspended in the summer means zero. Being suspended during the season is the only thing that would really count as punishment from a league standpoint.

A big reason I think Goodell is going to look add a league suspension beyond what he's already missed due to incarceration is that he Vick lied to him directly. And to Blank.

 

[FirstTimer]

Hmmm Sounds like a team that was #1 rushing while a certain QB was there that turned into a team playing from behind all the time that...


Pretty sure that's why his numbers are like that...

And last year when Matt Ryan was a rookie starting QB and the team went 11-5 and had the #2 rushing offense in the NFL Roddy White put up better numbers than in '07 so there goes that theory of yours.............

Try again.....

 

[NAHSTE]

throw him back there to run the "wildcat"

If he's a QB, wouldn't it just be called the shotgun? (I know I always ask this, but can we stop with the Wildcat frenzy? It's WildGay)

 

[NAHSTE]

The official league suspension started after his guilty plea in August. If he was "informally" suspended prior to that, its possible they "count it". But being suspended in the summer means zero. Being suspended during the season is the only thing that would really count as punishment from a league standpoint.

A big reason I think Goodell is going to look add a league suspension beyond what he's already missed due to incarceration is that he Vick lied to him directly. And to Blank.

I think he should get another 8 games tacked on, but that they should honor the "time served" so to speak from this season. I mean jail is jail, it's not like he was sitting around drinking lemonade while the season was going on, dude was in the yard. I think Goodell should be satisfied with how the US gov't handled his punishment. But given the circumstances, I do feel an 8 or 16 game addition is in order from Rog.

 

[ChemTheThriller]

And last year when Matt Ryan was a rookie starting QB and the team went 11-5 and had the #2 rushing offense in the NFL Roddy White put up better numbers than in '07 so there goes that theory of yours.............

Try again.....

No... I'm pretty sure it's because they ran a lot... In 06 they had 400 yards more then the 2nd team... Vick himself is not the greatest QB, I admit that... But I'm their offense scheme had a lot to do with whites numbers...


It's like complaining about the WRs numbers @ nebraska in the 90's... It was their offense, and your right ryan went 11-5 this that and the third ok that's nice they have very good balance this year...

And overall as a QB his numbers wern't Awful

2400 yards 20 TDs 13 Ints on and btw he ran for 1000 8.4 YPC


I hear what you guys are saying, Roddy white has done a lot better since vick has left... he also has received a prototypical QB with a strong arm... But in Vicks era in atlanta Roddy white wasn't the focus, it was the guy that made 100million... They made that team around his strengths and hewon games for them... It was the scheme they ran...

 

[FirstTimer]

... But I'm their offense scheme had a lot to do with whites numbers...

They were 2nd in the NFL in rushing last year and White put up better numbers than he did in 07 with a less oriented passing attack than the one he had in 07 with Petrino there.

Your idea and theory hold no weight and are not founded.

By the Way...

Atlanta's rushing attempts:

2008: 560
2007: 385
2006: 537
2005: 531

So, no. They did not run the ball more when Vick was there compared to last year when Roddy White put up a career year with a real QB throwing him the ball.

Once again stats kill a Vick defenders argument.

This place feels more and more like MM each day.

It's and your right ryan went 11-5 this that and the third ok that's nice they have very good balance this year...

I like how you try and just passively dismiss the entire point I made bc you know it destroys your idea about Vick NOT holding Roddy back....

2400 yards 20 TDs 13 Ints on and btw he ran for 1000 8.4 YPC

And a 52% completion percentage AND once again that 1,000 yard rishing season is skewed because Vicks sack yardage is not taken off his rushing total. So the 1,000 isn't as nearly impressive...

I hear what you guys are saying, Roddy white has done a lot better since vick has left... he also has received a prototypical QB with a strong arm... But in Vicks era in atlanta Roddy white wasn't the focus, it was the guy that made 100million... They made that team around his strengths and hewon games for them... It was the scheme they ran...

And Vick did badly in it. They changed "schemes" a few times under Vick and all they had to show for it was a record that is more comparable to Jay Fiedler than Peyton Manning.

Hell they couldn't even fully run the offense under Vick b/c the coaches didn't even trust him enough to give him the ability to audible/change playcalls.