MMA Thread

[Liquidrob]

If Brock beats Mir, I am almost positive we're going to see Fedor in the UFC.

I hope you're right, but I dont see it, Dana will not let Fedor have his rights and control of his name and career, he doesnt work that way

 

[Liquidrob]

I see your point with the rest I cut out.

But this...I think most people would agree that Don King promoting led to the downfall of boxing. Luckily you have "1" entity that on paper would seem to be more athlete friendly and fan friendly. But MMA would be a disaster with guys being promos by camps only.
You cant build MMA on names. Like Boxing or NBA etc when the stars fade the entire sport does. At least with Orgs like we have now its really about a name brand.
I dont think we'd see anywhere near the quality of undercards that we do now with spread out "manager" heavy promoting.
If theres one aspect of MMA >>Boxing that cant be disputed thats the quality and importance of undercards. MMA undercards mean something. In boxing theyre worthless.

true, thats why I said both have good and bad

Boxing you get more money at the top and 'bigger' fights with the UFC you get pretty good undercard fights to go along with a nice main event

me, I like both, but I never said I really love the boxing structure more, I just see MMA ending up that way, once the stars can build there own name and make money they will leave the UFC and do there own thing

frank, tito and a couple others have paved the way, now Fedor is making great money and doing his own thing, still not the exposure but not sure he even cares about that, someone like GSP could pull it off in the future, things are changing....

 

[Liquidrob]

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[Steel Mamba]

I see your point with the rest I cut out.

But this...I think most people would agree that Don King promoting led to the downfall of boxing. Luckily you have "1" entity that on paper would seem to be more athlete friendly and fan friendly. But MMA would be a disaster with guys being promos by camps only.
You cant build MMA on names. Like Boxing or NBA etc when the stars fade the entire sport does. At least with Orgs like we have now its really about a name brand.
I dont think we'd see anywhere near the quality of undercards that we do now with spread out "manager" heavy promoting.
If theres one aspect of MMA >>Boxing that cant be disputed thats the quality and importance of undercards. MMA undercards mean something. In boxing theyre worthless.

Undercards in boxing aren't worthless. Usually the big PPVs have good undercards, but of course we'll never see Mayweather and RJJ on the same card because they both demand too much money. So, it's almost unfair to compare the two. Still though boxing undercards carry heavy importance, they're typically never random guys just being thrown on a card, a lot of them are often in the top 10-20 or a talented upcomer. Sometimes you even get top 10 guys on the undercard as well.

 

[Liquidrob]

why did dana call out PBF to fight Sherk?

answer me!

 

[Steel Mamba]

lol, you already answered your own question and you're right. Dana never really wanted to do MMA vs boxers in the first place, it's too much of a risk, too much money short & longterm, and their PPV numbers are high without them. Gotta remember if they do pull in a boxer and pay him a bunch of money then MMA fighters are going to start demanding that as well.

 

[Liquidrob]

lol, you already answered your own question and you're right. Dana never really wanted to do MMA vs boxers in the first place, it's too much of a risk, too much money short & longterm, and their PPV numbers are high without them. Gotta remember if they do pull in a boxer and pay him a bunch of money then MMA fighters are going to start demanding that as well.

exactly, dana been exposed again

 

[Liquidrob]

Fedor and Mousasi training together

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[clovett]

According to Dave Meltzer's newsletter (subscription only), UFC 97 looks to have done in the neighborhood of 625,000 buys based on trending numbers. That number is incredible, and it didn’t require any crossover mainstream appeal.



If this is correct then you can pretty much bank on Liddell being the main draw that brought those numbers in.

 

[clovett]

For all the accolades, all the accomplishments, all the highlights from Frank Shamrock's near-15-year career, the MMA legend currently finds himself with a mere 1-3 record in his past four fights.

And as the former UFC and Strikeforce champion knows, merely being average simply isn't an option.

"I wasn't able to deliver in my last fight," Shamrock recently told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "It was a good show, but it was an OK fight. I didn't deliver a performance. I look at it like, 'If the actor can't hold the role, then you need a new actor.'"

Shamrock walked away from the UFC in 1999 after a legendary win over Tito Ortiz at UFC 22. The MMA pioneer fought just twice more over the next six-and-a-half years.

Despite currently feeling a strong desire to continue competing, the 36-year-old knows he has to base his decision on how future competitions would effect his brand as a whole.

"I think I have to (make a decision) just from a smart business standpoint," Shamrock said. "I can't have another Nick Diaz night, unfortunately. The reason why people are Frank Shamrock fans is that I show up, and I deliver every time."

Shamrock entered his April 11 Strikeforce bout with Diaz with a nagging rib injury, but the middleweight said he wouldn't pin the results of the fight on that setback.

"I'm normally hurt," Shamrock said. "I can't take anything away form Diaz. I went in there and fought, and the result wasn't what I wanted or expected.

"The rib messed me up pretty good. I couldn't grapple or do much of anything for a couple of weeks. But I went in there believing 100 percent that I could beat Nick Diaz. Regardless of if I had one leg or not, I stepped in there, I picked up the sword, and I believed the sword would strike him down. It didn't. I just didn't feel it that night."

While Shamrock won't blame the loss on his injured rib, the California resident doesn't know where exactly to focus the responsibility.

"I've never gone in and gotten my ass kicked," Shamrock said. "I've never gone in and not had an outstanding performance, which is what people pay for. It's a brand-new experience for me, and I've always been able to go in there broken, whatever and been able to push it aside and perform.

"So I don't know. Am I getting old? Do I care less? Is it time to move on? I have no idea because this is my first experience."

Shamrock once walked away on a hot streak, leaving the UFC with a five-fight win streak in the organization and having compiled a nine-fight unbeaten streak that would eventually reach 12 contests.

With just two wins in six bouts since a 2006 return to more frequent action, is it time once again for the MMA pioneer to focus on his multiple ventures outside of the cage?

"My only regret is that I didn't start younger and have more years to give," Shamrock said. "I really think I'm going to go for nine more years, but I also really thought I was going to kick Nick Diaz's ass.

"Things have changed a little bit."

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-top-eight-oh-shit-moments-in-mma/

nothing but HAHAHAHAHA in there.

Top 8 "OH SHIT" moments in MMA.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-top-eight-oh-shit-moments-in-mma/

nothing but HAHAHAHAHA in there.

Top 8 "OH SHIT" moments in MMA.

lol @ the fred ettish fight. good find

 

[Liquidrob]

This is how you finish Heath Herring

 

[Liquidrob]

Man, I was looking at Cro Cops record, pretty damn impressive, great wins and an unbelievable finishing %

When he was on, we has freakin on

24-6-2 18 TKO's, 3 Subs, 3 Dec

Win Hong Man Choi TKO (Low Kick) K-1 - Dynamite!! Power of Courage 2008 12/31/2008 1 6:32

NC Alistair Overeem No Contest (Knee to the Groin) Dream 6 - Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 Final 9/23/2008 1 N/A

Win Tatsuya Mizuno TKO (Punches) Dream 1 - Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Opening Round 3/15/2008 1 0:56

Loss Cheick Kongo Decision (Unanimous) UFC 75 - Champion vs. Champion 9/8/2007 3 5:00

Loss Gabriel Gonzaga KO (Head Kick) UFC 70 - Nations Collide 4/21/2007 1 4:51

Win Eddie Sanchez TKO (Punches) UFC 67 - All or Nothing 2/3/2007 1 4:33

Win Josh Barnett Submission (Strikes) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:32

Win Wanderlei Silva KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26

Win Hidehiko Yoshida TKO (Leg Kicks) PRIDE - Critical Countdown Absolute 7/1/2006 1 7:38

Win Ikuhisa Minowa TKO (Punches) PRIDE - Total Elimination Absolute 5/5/2006 1 1:10

Loss Mark Hunt Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 3 5:00

Win Josh Barnett Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE 30 - Fully Loaded 10/23/2005 3 5:00

Loss Fedor Emelianenko Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 3 5:00

Win Ibragim Magomedov KO (Kick to the Body) PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2005 6/26/2005 1 3:5

Win Mark Coleman KO (Punches) PRIDE 29 - Fists Of Fire 2/20/2005 1 3:40

Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Guillotine Choke) PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 1 0:41

Win Josh Barnett Submission (Shoulder Injury) PRIDE 28 - High Octane 10/31/2004 1 0:46

Win Aleksander Emelianenko KO (Head Kick and Punches) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 2:09

Win Shungo Oyama TKO (Punches) PRIDE - Bushido 4 7/19/2004 1 1:00

Win Hiromitsu Kanehara Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Bushido 3 5/23/2004 2 5:00

Loss Kevin Randleman KO (Punches) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2004 4/25/2004 1 1:57

Win Yoshihisa Yamamoto TKO (Punches) PRIDE - Bushido 2 2/15/2004 1 2:12

Win Ron Waterman TKO (Soccer Kicks) PRIDE 27 - Inferno 2/1/2004 1 1:37

Loss Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2003 11/9/2003 2 1:45

Win Dos Caras Jr. KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Bushido 1 10/5/2003 1 0:46

Win Igor Vovchanchyn KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003 1 1:29

Win Heath Herring TKO (Kick to the Body and Punches) PRIDE 26 - Bad to the Bone 6/8/2003 1 3:17

Win Kazuyuki Fujita Decision (Unanimous) Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2002 - K-1 vs. Inoki 12/31/2002 3 5:00

Win Kazushi Sakuraba TKO (Eye Injury) PRIDE - Shockwave 8/28/2002 2 5:00

Draw Wanderlei Silva Draw PRIDE 20 - Armed and Ready 4/28/2002 5 3:00

Win Yuji Nagata TKO (Punches) Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2001 - K-1 vs. Inoki 12/31/2001 1 0:21

Draw Nobuhiko Takada Draw PRIDE 17 - Championship Chaos 11/3/2001 5 3:00

Win Kazuyuki Fujita TKO (Cut) K-1 - Andy Hug Memorial 8/19/2001 1 0:39

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

cro cop is the mother fuckin man. the reason i started watching MMA. never the same after the gonzaga kick though.


sidenote- how does rob win "other sports discussion" award? who gives these awards out... tom attencio? rob gets zulu'd on the regular in this thread.

 

[clovett]

Chuck Liddell’s recently updated Wikipedia biography refers to him as a “former” mixed martial artist.

Not so fast Wiki.

To paraphrase Mark Twain, reports of Liddell’s retirement following his first-round technical knockout loss against Mauricio “Shogun” Rua at UFC 97 last month have been greatly exaggerated. That’s according to the man who arguably knows “The Iceman” better than anyone, his longtime trainer John Hackleman.

Hackleman said the 39-year-old superstar is mulling his career options, hasn’t made any decision and is in no hurry to do so.

Liddell’s coach and confidante of 17 years also had some choice words for UFC President Dana White, calling him “rude” and “selfish” for saying Liddell, a former UFC light heavyweight champion, will never again fight in the promotion.

At the post-fight press conference following UFC 97 in Montreal, White said he would not allow Liddell, the promotion’s poster boy as recently as two years ago, to step into the Octagon again due to concerns about his physical well-being.

“Obviously, John Hackleman didn’t pay his house off yet. John Hackleman needs some money, because anybody who claims they care about Chuck Liddell even a little bit would not be making these f--king statements,” White told Sherdog.com Thursday.

However, Hackleman said he and Liddell are in no hurry to discuss the pivotal decision just yet.

“Nothing has been decided yet,” Hackleman said from his MMA training facility, The Pit, in Arroyo Grande, Calif. “We made a deal. We’re gonna go, probably this summer, to Hawaii and we’re gonna sit on the beach and see if we can decide then. If not, there’s no rush. He’s not under a time crunch. He’ll decide when he wants to decide. And nobody else is gonna tell him.

“Chuck just loves to fight,” Hackleman continued. “And if there could be another fight –- if he wants one –- and he’s under contract (to the UFC), then we’ll see what happens. If he has to go somewhere else to fight, we’ll see what happens there. If we go sit on the beach and Chuck says, ‘F--k it, I’m tired of this s--t, let’s retire,’ then he’ll just come teach here” at the Pit.

“Whatever happens,” added Hackleman, “Chuck is set. Doesn’t need the money.”

Liddell’s loss to Rua was his fourth defeat in his last five fights dating back to May 2007, when he lost the light heavyweight crown to Quinton Jackson. Two of those four defeats were TKOs, care of Jackson and Rua, while a third was a devastating knockout by current UFC light heavyweight champion Rashad Evans.

Prior to his recent losses, Liddell had won seven consecutive fights, all by TKO, establishing his reputation as one of the most feared strikers in the sport.

White, who managed Liddell earlier in his career and remains close friends with the fighter, said even though Liddell remains a huge draw, he was concerned that the fighter could endanger his health by stepping into the Octagon again. More recently, White ratcheted up the rhetoric, and was quoted as saying there would be “a war” if Liddell didn’t retire gracefully.


Jeff Sherwood/Sherdog.com


Hackleman doesn't see any
reason why Liddell should quit.Even given Liddell’s four losses in the last two years, Hackleman said he doesn’t see any reason his fighter should retire, unless that’s what he wants to do.

“He got caught by a couple of great fighters, but I don’t see Shannon Ritch [who has 64 career losses] beating up on him, so I don’t think losing to the top of the top in and of itself warrants the outcries of retirement,” Hackleman said.

“If Chuck was getting the s--t beat out of him by a bunch of nobodies and getting knocked unconscious all over the place, I would try to influence him to retire,” he continued. “But since I don’t see that –- Rashad was the only time I’ve seen him actually knocked unconscious –- if he really wants to still fight, and I think it’s in his heart, I don’t think anyone, including Dana, should take his livelihood and his love away.”

Hackleman said other name fighters have suffered more losses and have been beat up more than Liddell, and they’ve yet to hang up their gloves.

“I’m not going to name names, but they are still up in the top of the game and no one is calling for their retirement,” he said. “Chuck’s wits are about him. He’s not punchy. So it’s up to him. Whatever is in his heart.”

He noted that another senior MMA superstar, Randy Couture, was considered done after being KO’d by Liddell in their light heavyweight rubber match at UFC 57 in 2006 and retired. A year later, Couture came out of retirement, went up a weight class and for the third time in his career became UFC heavyweight champion by defeating Tim Sylvia at UFC 68.

So, has Liddell considered moving up to heavyweight?

“Never been discussed,” Hackleman said. “But nothing is completely off the table.”

Hackleman said another option for Liddell could be to fight an opponent not as top tier as his last few adversaries.

“To be honest, even if Chuck wasn’t fighting the top of the top, he’d still be a big draw and boxers end their careers that way and there’s no reason MMA fighters can’t,” he said, noting that like every fighter, Liddell wants to go out a winner.

Hackleman believes that White said he doesn’t want Liddell to fight again in the UFC out of genuine concerns for Liddell’s well-being.

Even so, Hackleman said, “to take someone’s love away from them is rude and kind of selfish and kind of just controlling. You’re the main man in the UFC and you can dictate to people what they’re gonna do for the rest of their lives. It would be like if he (White) threw a bad show, and we said, ‘OK, you can’t promote anymore.’

“Dana is Dana and he’s got the two rich brothers backing him up and he’s got all the money in the world,” continued Hackleman, referring to billionaires Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta, who share 90 percent of the Las Vegas-based UFC’s parent company. “I think he says that out of concern for Chuck, but he wants to be the bully, the big shot, ‘there will be a war.’ F--k. You don’t have to say that. But it’s Dana’s playground and he can take his ball and say, ‘You can’t play anymore.’ Could he talk that way if he didn’t have what he had behind him?”

White reiterated his concern for Liddell’s physical well-being.

“This is a guy who I love and care about extremely,” he said. “He comes to my house for Christmas. We go on vacations together. We’ve been together for years. Getting knocked out consecutively is not good for your health. You can ask any doctor that. You don’t have to be a f--king rocket scientist to figure that one out.”

White said he and Liddell “had a deal” after the Evans fight that if Liddell did not beat Rua in spectacular fashion, Liddell would retire.

“He said, ‘I f--king promise,’” White said.

White stressed that because Liddell remains one of the biggest draws in the sport despite his recent losses, the UFC could still “make a s--tload of money” off of him.

“But I don’t want that f--king money,” White said. “I’m not gonna see my friend go out and do that again. When have you ever seen a f--king promoter who can make money with a guy ask him to retire?”

White said Liddell has accomplished all that any fighter could hope to accomplish.

“One of the greatest fighters in mixed martial arts,” White said. “The most famous fighter in mixed martial arts. He’s been a world champion. He’s beat all the top names. He’s helped build this organization and he’s helped build the sport of mixed martial arts. He has nothing to prove. Fighting isn’t a young man’s sport. (Michael) Jordan turned 40. It happens to the best of us. Chuck’s had his day.”

Even so, the UFC president said Liddell will remain employed by the promotion for life.

“He’s going to be with the UFC forever,” White said. “I’m thinking of him doing regulatory stuff with Marc Ratner,” the promotion’s vice president for regulatory affairs. “Chuck Liddell is going to make a lot more money and he’s going to have a lot of fun.”

White said he would never let Liddell fight for another promotion.

“F--king right I wouldn’t,” said White, though he later added, “at the end of the day, if that’s what he wanted to do, I mean, what am I going to do? I’m not his f--king father. I can’t tell him, ‘No, you f--king can’t.’”

The UFC president said Hackleman is frustrated because “he’s never been a decision-maker in Chuck’s career. I can tell you this: He didn’t make Chuck Liddell. Chuck Liddell made John Hackleman.

“How many great, talented guys do you see coming out of John Hackleman’s place?” White asked. “He’s no Greg Jackson. He’s no Mark DellaGrotte. He’s no American Top Team. He’s not one of the great camps. Chuck Liddell made him.”

 

[clovett]

Kevin Randleman vs Mike Whitehead has been added to Strikeforce's June 6th card.

 

[Liquidrob]

cro cop is the mother fuckin man. the reason i started watching MMA. never the same after the gonzaga kick though.


sidenote- how does rob win "other sports discussion" award? who gives these awards out... tom attencio? rob gets zulu'd on the regular in this thread.

because I'm a fucking other sports beast, my new name should be LiquidFedor

anyway, updated strikeforce card for June 6th on showtime

Showtime fights:

Robbie Lawler vs. Jake Shields
Nick Diaz vs. Scott Smith
Kevin Randleman vs. Mike Whitehead
Phil Baroni vs. Joe Riggs
Rafael Cavalcante vs. Jared Hamman

Under card:

Jesse Finney vs. Josh Baumgartner
Tyron Woodley vs. Sal Woods
Scott Ventimiglia vs. Lucas Lopes
Pat Benson vs. Dave Lehr Cochran
Booker DeRousse vs. James Wade

 

[clovett]

im liking strikeforce more and more..they seem to put solid shows on all the time

 

[Liquidrob]

im liking strikeforce more and more..they seem to put solid shows on all the time

yeah, strikeforce has always put on good shows, there only issue before was the lack of depth in the org because it was just a regional promotion, now with buying eliteXC and having a strong relationship with japan orgs they can fill out a card nicely

hopefully overeem gets on the next card