PSU Freeh Report: Leaders Concealed Information & Did Not Act to Help Kids

[Prodigal Son]

Here's the issue with penalizing Penn State for criminal acts of people who worked at the school. You now open up the gates that allows the NCAA to punish schools for crimes committed by people in charge of the schools athletics.

The NCAA is there to make sure that schools do not cheat. It is not there to be the morality police.

 

[jeffx]

I read Sandusky started his Second Mile charity for underprivileged kids in 1977. Shit, how many boys did he molest before the 1998 incident? That needs to be investigated.

 

[EmpireWF]

I read Sandusky started his Second Mile charity for underprivileged kids in 1977. Shit, how many boys did he molest before the 1998 incident? That needs to be investigated.

Only way is to go through any records of the kids in the program and interview them one by one, right? Those boys are now in their mid-late 30s, maybe 40s....cant imagine that'll be a priority for any agency.

 

[jeffx]

Has the NCAA ever punished a school over a criminal case?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Here's the issue with penalizing Penn State for criminal acts of people who worked at the school. You now open up the gates that allows the NCAA to punish schools for crimes committed by people in charge of the schools athletics.

The NCAA is there to make sure that schools do not cheat. It is not there to be the morality police.

Thank you. This is what i've been trying to convey.

If everything else remained the same, but we were talking about bank robberies or assaults or DUI's or whatever, very few people would be screaming for the NCAA to impose the death penalty. The pitchforks are out because the crimes are so heinous. Admittedly, this is an incredibly odd situation and there may be some fringe details that have come out of this that will allow the NCAA to act. I can see it both ways, but lean towards the NCAA staying out of it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Has the NCAA ever punished a school over a criminal case?

To my knowledge, only when those criminal cases extended into competitive violations. The best comparison I can think of is the Baylor basketball deal from a few years ago.

 

[Maynard]

i think we all understand what you have been trying to convey. Its not like having another person say it makes everyone all of a sudden agree with you. And it certainly doesnt provide any extra validity

i for one am not talking about the death penalty. and i dont care about the ncaa. i am talking about having the universities accreditation revoked in addition to having its athletic program shut down

 

[FedEx227]

That's the only concrete one to look at I suppose. There was a murder but you could argue the NCAA violations came because the player murdered was paid to come to the school.

You know, pure college athletics.

 

[FedEx227]

i think we all understand what you have been trying to convey. Its not like having another person say it makes everyone all of a sudden agree with you.

i for one am not talking about the death penalty. and i dont care about the ncaa. i am talking about having the universities accreditation revoked in addition to having its athletic program shut down

And that may be what happens. We're using NCAA because from an athletic end but I think it's going to come from the Department of Education. If they decide to make an example out of PSU it could be real harsh.

 

[jeffx]

W2B, I think there'll be a lot of public(and media) pressure on the NCAA to do something.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

i for one am not talking about the death penalty. and i dont care about the ncaa. i am talking about having the universities accreditation revoked in addition to having its athletic program shut down

I agree, I think this is something that can and should be looked at.

 

[Prodigal Son]

i think we all understand what you have been trying to convey. Its not like having another person say it makes everyone all of a sudden agree with you. And it certainly doesnt provide any extra validity

i for one am not talking about the death penalty. and i dont care about the ncaa. i am talking about having the universities accreditation revoked in addition to having its athletic program shut down

So, you punish the students who go there, and the teachers who work there? I'm pretty sure the stigma that Penn State has received from this is bad enough. To be known as Pedo State? I'd love to see enrollment rates from last year to this year and next year. I'd think this would hurt the numbers greatly.

 

[NAHSTE]

Jesus christ people, NOBODY is suggesting the NCAA punish Penn State for Sandusky's crimes. We are talking about the athletic department's instrumental role in perpetuating those crimes. This is about blatant disregard for compliance and ethics ... Here's the official NCAA statement on how they are approaching the Freeh Report:

"Like everyone else, we are reviewing the final report for the first time today. As President Emmert wrote in his November 17th letter to Penn State President Rodney Erickson and reiterated this week, the university has four key questions, concerning compliance with institutional control and ethics policies, to which it now needs to respond. Penn State's response to the letter will inform our next steps, including whether or not to take further action. We expect Penn State's continued cooperation in our examination of these issues."

 

[EmpireWF]

What are standard NCAA punishments for ethics violations?

 

[Maynard]

So, you punish the students who go there, and the teachers who work there? I'm pretty sure the stigma that Penn State has received from this is bad enough. To be known as Pedo State? I'd love to see enrollment rates from last year to this year and next year. I'd think this would hurt the numbers greatly.

thats the line....believe me i see what you are saying. i am on the harsh side of the fence. but i am glad i dont have to make that decision. alot of people, who had nothing to do with this will be hurt

but to cover up child rape...its not forgivable...and like Jeff posted, the guy was involved with this charity since 1977. he didnt just wake up in 1998 and decide to become a pedo. he has probably been raping children for the past 40 years

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

W2B, I think there'll be a lot of public(and media) pressure on the NCAA to do something.

I agree, there already is, and I think the NCAA is in a no win situation. Short of SMU'ing the program, whatever they do (or not do) will not be perceived as enough.

 

[NAHSTE]

What are standard NCAA punishments for ethics violations?

Standard? :yao:

We all know they make this shit up as they go along.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This post will probably come off badly, but I don't care.

From a strictly legal point of view, the 1998 incident & investigation, which by all accounts was the first time Sandusky's legal issues cropped up, led to no charges being filed.

In his trial, the only counts Sandusky was not convicted of surrounded the 2001 McQuery slap-slap-slapping incident.

So both incidents that Penn St covered up, technically, in the eyes of the law, did not even happen. Sandusky was not convicted of anything from the 1998 or 2001 incidents. Just accused.

Correct me if im wrong, but these are the two incidents in question, as far as what was said to be covered up.

I am not suggesting here that they did not think Sandusky was a monster, or that they shouldn't have done more to get rid of the creep at minimum, but from a legal standpoint, this seems like something a lawyer would have a fighting chance with, unfortunately.

 

[NAHSTE]

This post will probably come off badly, but I don't care.

From a strictly legal point of view, the 1998 incident & investigation, which by all accounts was the first time Sandusky's legal issues cropped up, led to no charges being filed.

In his trial, the only counts Sandusky was not convicted of surrounded the 2001 McQuery slap-slap-slapping incident.

So both incidents that Penn St covered up, technically, in the eyes of the law, did not even happen. Sandusky was not convicted of anything from the 1998 or 2001 incidents. Just accused.

Correct me if im wrong, but these are the two incidents in question, as far as what was said to be covered up.

I am not suggesting here that they did not think Sandusky was a monster, or that they shouldn't have done more to get rid of the creep at minimum, but from a legal standpoint, this seems like something a lawyer would have a fighting chance with, unfortunately.

Based on the emails, it is clear Spagnier, Graham and Paterno knew about it and chose not to do anything about it. Also, according to the report, Sandusky admitted to the Penn State police chief in 1998 that he had done this before. Harmon relays that information to Schultz in an email. There's very little wiggle room with that. They talk openly about knowing about the 98 incident, and previous incidents, and they talk openly about not moving forward with the investigation based on the recommendation of Paterno.

There is way too much evidence there that points to Penn State officials and Joe Paterno knowing that he had been doing this, was still doing this, etc. Not only did they do nothing to stop it, they continued to indirectly encourage it for 15 more years.

Sandusky did not even have his keys to the football offices taken away until after the grand jury report went public a few months ago. He was spotted in the weight room days before. Way too much legal liability here.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Based on the emails, it is clear Spagnier, Graham and Paterno knew about it and chose not to do anything about it. Also, according to the report, Sandusky admitted to the Penn State police chief in 1998 that he had done this before. Harmon relays that information to Schultz in an email. There's very little wiggle room with that. They talk openly about knowing about the 98 incident, and previous incidents, and they talk openly about not moving forward with the investigation based on the recommendation of Paterno.

There is way too much evidence there that points to Penn State officials and Joe Paterno knowing that he had been doing this, was still doing this, etc. Not only did they do nothing to stop it, they continued to indirectly encourage it for 15 more years.

Sandusky did not even have his keys to the football offices taken away until after the grand jury report went public a few months ago. He was spotted in the weight room days before. Way too much legal liability here.

Hopefully this is the case, because I would hate to see Curley, Schultz, and Spanier worm their way out of this.