PSU Freeh Report: Leaders Concealed Information & Did Not Act to Help Kids

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

What about where the rapes took place? In the PSU facilities.....campus.....NCAA jurisidiction.??

Penn St. = Linbacker U....Sandusky = LB coach.
No Sundusky = no top LB recruits?

:kanye:

Miami is Linebacker U, and the only rapees are on da seventh floor...and dey willing.

AMIRITE?

 

[FedEx227]

Ah yes, i'm sure school presidents everywhere would then, and only then, realize that covering up child rape is bad, because it could result in the football team being punished.

Do you see how silly that sentence sounds? This is bigger than football, and I don't think that message needs to be sent.

Here's the problem though, for Penn State, it wasn't bigger than football. And THAT is why something needs to be done from the top-down level. They put football and their football program above federal law and that should receive serious punishment. They used football as an escape in the most literal sense.

 

[shag773]

The concealment/coverup isn't just a criminal case though via perjury or obstruction. There are institutional issues at work as well.

PSU wouldn't be punished because Sandusky did what he did. They'd be punished because Paterno and Co. covered up what went on

Which falls under the Clery Act, which subjects the university to subsequent punishments that come for failing to observe it...

 

[NAHSTE]

Horrible example again.

The Penn St situation is a criminal case, the NCAA has no power here, and should have no power here. Their job is to handle shit that effects the playing field. Small potatoes compared to a criminal case involving child rape.

Those involved are already being punished. Throwing sanctions on Bill O'Brien accomplishes what, exactly? And based on what grounds? If a football coach commits armed robbery, do we punish the football team? How about a string of DUI's? Not the NCAA's role.

Child rape is like the worst thing you can do, and it triggers something in our brains. I get it. But the NCAA has no jurisdiction over criminal issues that do not in some way improperly benefit the on field product, nor should they. This isnt a competition issue.

No, it's a compliance issue, which is something the watchdogs at the NCAA take very seriously. And based on their findings so far, Penn State's compliance department is/was a joke.

 

[FedEx227]

My stance remains the same.

Penn St removed everybody involved, and the courts will handle the rest.

Not a competition issue, therefore, not an NCAA issue.

Whether Penn St themselves should perhaps put football to sleep on their own is a separate debate. All i'm saying is this is no place for the NCAA, and I think the term 'child rape' is triggering emotion out of people that is causing them to lose some perspective.

Agreed. I'm really not the Sandusky thing as the main rallying cry for the NCAA putting something on PSU. The report indicates an almost 15-20 year pattern of Joe Paterno not allowing their compliance office to properly report crimes committed by members of the Penn State Football Program. This goes beyond just Sandusky. There cases of assault, robbery, etc. that Joe told the Compliance office he'd prefer to handle internally and that's grossly illegal not only by federal standards as a state-funded institution but also NCAA by-laws and Student-Athletic Compliance laws.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

What about where the rapes took place? In the PSU facilities.....campus.....NCAA jurisidiction.??

Penn St. = Linbacker U....Sandusky = LB coach.
No Sundusky = no top LB recruits?

:kanye:

Possibly, a bit of a stretch, but possibly.

Again, I wouldn't lose sleep if the NCAA acted. I just don't think they should and it would set a dangerous precedent. Where do you stop?

I don't see it as a competition issue, and I think this situation is so outlandish and bizarre that it's hard to compare to almost anything else.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Have on-campus "assistants" fornicate with potential student-athletes on recruiting visits = NCAA Intervention.
Have assistant coaches fornicate with potential student-athletes during camps = Too big for the NCAA to investigate.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Agreed. I'm really not the Sandusky thing as the main rallying cry for the NCAA putting something on PSU. The report indicates an almost 15-20 year pattern of Joe Paterno not allowing their compliance office to properly report crimes committed by members of the Penn State Football Program. This goes beyond just Sandusky. There cases of assault, robbery, etc. that Joe told the Compliance office he'd prefer to handle internally and that's grossly illegal not only by federal standards as a state-funded institution but also NCAA by-laws and Student-Athletic Compliance laws.

Now you are getting into things outside the scope of Sandusky, which honestly I don't know enough about to warrant a meaningful opinion, so i'll step out of this.

 

[shag773]

Agreed. I'm really not the Sandusky thing as the main rallying cry for the NCAA putting something on PSU. The report indicates an almost 15-20 year pattern of Joe Paterno not allowing their compliance office to properly report crimes committed by members of the Penn State Football Program. This goes beyond just Sandusky. There cases of assault, robbery, etc. that Joe told the Compliance office he'd prefer to handle internally and that's grossly illegal not only by federal standards as a state-funded institution but also NCAA by-laws and Student-Athletic Compliance laws.

I read the entire report and I don't remember reading that. Not saying your wrong, but do you remember what part of the report this was in?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Here's the problem though, for Penn State, it wasn't bigger than football. And THAT is why something needs to be done from the top-down level. They put football and their football program above federal law and that should receive serious punishment. They used football as an escape in the most literal sense.

I get this. I really do.

My issue, is who are "they"? I think the new people in charge of things get what you are saying too, which is why they cleaned house.

I'm just unsure what punishing people who had nothing to do with this accomplishes. The players didn't benefit. The coaches are fired, the people who hired the coaches are fired, and the people who oversaw everything are fired. All will go to prison. Would we be punishing a logo? Does that make people feel better on some level? It's interesting, idk. I just don't see the point, and I think it harms a lot of people who don't deserve it. I understand the concept collateral damage, but in this case, nobody who really deserves it will feel any brunt from this, so what is the point?

 

[Rayman]

Bad examples on your part IMO.

It's not that the rapes occurred from the NCAA perspective, it's that the athletic program used their clout and pull at the school to cover them up and conceal them. yeah the NCAA can't technically punish PSU for the rapes themselves but they sure as hell can punish the school/football team for their part in covering them up. There's a difference.

perhaps it will make these universities, organizations, and corporations take a moment and rethink covering up criminal activity for the sake of revenue and reputation. Maybe next time they will opt to report it instead of allowing 10+ years of child rape to take place

Pretty much what I'm saying here. The kids are D-I football players. They can get scholarships and play elsewhere.

Ah yes, i'm sure school presidents everywhere would then, and only then, realize that covering up child rape is bad, because it could result in the football team being punished.

Do you see how silly that sentence sounds? This is bigger than football, and I don't think that message needs to be sent.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I hate to say it, but YES!


Also, I thought I glimpsed in the report (gonna try to find it again if it exists) that Curtis Enis was given a rather expensive suit in 1997, so the NCAA should be able to mosey on in if that's there. :smug:

 

[FedEx227]

http://deadspin.com/5925546/penn-state-failed-to-comply-with-federal-law-for-two-decades

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...-11-22/11-22-11-Paterno-Discipline/51346682/1

Don't recall the exact location but if you set up a search fro Vicky Triponey you should be able to find it. She was the Dean that was constantly thwarted by Joe in disciplinary issues until she resigned.

 

[FedEx227]

I get this. I really do.

My issue, is who are "they"? I think the new people in charge of things get what you are saying too, which is why they cleaned house.

I'm just unsure what punishing people who had nothing to do with this accomplishes. The players didn't benefit. The coaches are fired, the people who hired the coaches are fired, and the people who oversaw everything are fired. All will go to prison. Would we be punishing a logo? Does that make people feel better on some level? It's interesting, idk. I just don't see the point, and I think it harms a lot of people who don't deserve it. I understand the concept collateral damage, but in this case, nobody who really deserves it will feel any brunt from this, so what is the point?

Because, unfortunately for the players, coaches affected, you have to set an example of Penn State. Sorry it has to happen, it's a shame for those involved, but the University as whole (logo, brand, reputation) has to pay for the way they handled crimes committed on and around their campus by people inside the University (whether they still work there or not). From the President, to the football coach, to an untrained compliance office, they all had a place in this crime and numerous others being handled improperly.

It's no different then tons of people losing their jobs because the CEO was up to no good. It's sad that those people have to fall, but there needs to be accountability at some level and just removing those who committed the crime does nothing.

Sad as it is for some, the brand and reputations of Penn State needs to suffer in light of this or else anyone involved with college athletics needs to take a long look in the mirror.

 

[NAHSTE]

I read the entire report and I don't remember reading that. Not saying your wrong, but do you remember what part of the report this was in?

From deadspin, a few days before report:

We know the forthcoming report on Louis Freeh's investigation into Penn State is going to be "very tough on" Joe Paterno. We also know the complaints of Vicky Triponey, Penn State's former vice president for student affairs, will be included in that report. Triponey's clashes with Paterno over the discipline of PSU football players prior to her resignation in September 2007 were first reported back in November, just after Jerry Sandusky's initial arrest. But now CNN has obtained the actual contents of Triponey's emails to university officials, and they reveal the depth of her frustration over Paterno's efforts to have his own code of justice for Penn State players:

She criticizes Paterno for wanting to limit the Campus Code of Conduct to incidents that take place on campus and keeping disciplinary matters involving his players private. "Coach Paterno would rather we NOT inform the public when a football player is found responsible for committing a serious violation of the law and/or our student code — despite any moral or legal obligation to do so," according to her e-mail.

In the same e-mail, Triponey, also refers to calls her office was receiving from coaches and others. "I must insist that the efforts to put pressure on (Student Affairs) and try to influence our decisions...simply MUST STOP," she writes.

Curley, in a subsequent e-mail, acknowledges that Triponey's take on the conversation with Paterno is accurate.

Triponey replies to Curley, "I know you are caught in the middle of a very difficult situation," an apparent reference to appeasing Paterno.

In a subsequent e-mail to then-Penn State President Graham Spanier she is more blunt: "I am very troubled by the manipulative, disrespectful, uncivil and abusive behavior of our football coach," she writes.

Some Penn Staters have noted that Triponey left a legacy of trampling students' rights during her time as an administrator at both UConn and PSU. But none of that proves she's being dishonest here, which is what's really the issue. The Freeh report is clearly trying to establish an institutional pattern, but to what extent? Sandusky was the impetus for Freeh's investigation, so the pattern suggests the Penn State football program's desire to discipline itself contributed to an overall climate in which Sandusky's behavior went unreported for so long.

But what does "very tough on" Paterno mean? Will the report clearly demonstrate the influence Paterno supposedly had over his superiors, who were certainly capable of making their own decisions? What will the report say about the board of trustees, the group that hired Freeh (and that, incidentally, fired Paterno and Spanier, the two men most implicated by the recent series of leaked emails)? And what recommendations will the report be making? The leaks have been helpful, but by now it just might be best to wait for Freeh's full report to be made public.

There is also this ...

Paterno's family responded to CNN's report by claiming that select emails were being leaked in order to smear Paterno's name, and that Paterno himself never actually used email, meaning there was no record of him being involved in the alleged cover-up.

Today's story in The Chronicle refutes the claim that Paterno hadn't used email, though, as it points to an email that the coach sent to Tim Curley in 2007 after multiple Penn State football players had been involved in an off-campus fight:

After the incident, Mr. Paterno wrote to Graham B. Spanier, the university's president, and "Tim"—presumably Mr. Curley—through an e-mail account used by the coach's assistant, Sandi Segursky.

"I want to make sure everyone understands that the discipline of the players involved will be handled by me as soon as I am comfortable that I know all the facts," said the April 7, 2007, e-mail, which was signed "Joe."

It's not entirely clear what Paterno meant by "discipline of the players involved will be handled by me," but Vicky Triponey, a former vice president of student affairs at Penn State, seems to have had an idea. According to the Chronicle, Triponey was copied on the correspondence between Curley and Paterno, and she responded to Curley:

Thanks for sharing. I assume he is talking about discipline relative to TEAM rules. Obviously discipline relative to the law is up to the police and the courts, and discipline relative to violations of the student code of conduct is the responsibility of Judicial Affairs.

This has not always been clear with Coach Paterno so we might want to clarify that and encourage him to work with us to find the truth and handle this collaboratively with the police and the university. The challenge here is that the letter suggests that football should handle this and now Coach Paterno is also saying THEY will handle this and makes it look like the normal channels will be ignored for football players.

Last year, the Wall Street Journal reported that clashes between Paterno and Triponey over player discipline had led to the dean's departure in 2007—by Triponey's account, after the university president informed her that "Mr. Paterno had given him an ultimatum: Fire her, or Mr. Paterno would stop fund-raising for the school."

UPSTANDING MOLDER OF MEN. MORALITY. HUZZAH.


Guy was a scumfuck, plain and simple.

 

[FedEx227]

Not allowing your compliance office to properly report crimes committed by members of your program?

That an NCAA issue, yet?

 

[shag773]

Yeah, I guess guys. I'm fucking dizzy with all this shit. To be honest I couldn't care less if they sanctioned the football program. I'm not even sure if I could bring myself to watch a PSU game right now. I saw the PSU colors before and I thought it represented everything that was right about sports. I got chills watching Joe run out of the tunnel with his players. Now, I don't know what I see. Right now I am just hoping someone can step forward and get this university on the right track of where it once was and can inspire me to at least feel a little bit of what I felt about them before all this came to light.

This really fucking sucks.

 

[FedEx227]

Part of the reason why I think they need a cool off period. There's so much craziness surrounding the program, if they just run out there next year and PLAY FOOTBALL it puts across an odd message. Football was the escape for too long and that's the issue with the culture. The university needs to take a look and decide what they are, are they a football program that has some classes around it or are they a higher education institution that happens to have a football team.

 

[Maynard]

Ah yes, i'm sure school presidents everywhere would then, and only then, realize that covering up child rape is bad, because it could result in the football team being punished.

Do you see how silly that sentence sounds? This is bigger than football, and I don't think that message needs to be sent.

you know what is silly? you saying nothing should be done because all the people involved already got punished or are dead. thats silly

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

you know what is silly? you saying nothing should be done because all the people involved already got punished or are dead. thats silly

I'm hardly the only one saying the NCAA may not have a place, here.

 

[Mogriffjr]

Part of the reason why I think they need a cool off period. There's so much craziness surrounding the program, if they just run out there next year and PLAY FOOTBALL it puts across an odd message. Football was the escape for too long and that's the issue with the culture. The university needs to take a look and decide what they are, are they a football program that has some classes around it or are they a higher education institution that happens to have a football team.

There won't be a "cooling off" period.

They'll play and they should, they'll likely become the leader of child care etc and make that part of their games, as part of their gate money goes towards those charities, etc.