Hide Yo Kids. Paterno/Sandusky Trial/Penn State Megathread

[Kuzzy Powers]

Boom. Seems people are getting some joy out of taking shots at the old fucker.

And I agree with the first bold. I doubt I would have went to the police either. I would have told McQueary to go to the police, he's the one who saw it. I think McQueary put Paterno in an awful position.

And I don't know why this part is being glossed over, but according to the grand jury testimony, one of the two people Paterno reported the incident to was in charge of the campus police department at the time (Shultz).

If Paterno was an implicit part of the cover up, off with his head. At this point, there is nothing that connects those dots except for assumptions. If he had some sort of backdoor deal with McQueary to stay quiet, he belongs in prison for whatever amount of life he has left. If such a deal was in place, i'm not sure why Shultz and Curley would take such a bullet for McQueary. Paterno yes, but McQueary? C'mon.

Do you honestly think anyone here is getting joy out of taking shots at Paterno, or taking this as a long waited opp to jump on the guy? Or that hes the one solely responsible? Its not about that, man. Its about him being one of MANY people who royally fucked up here. This whole idea that Joe Pa or ANYONE else knowing should've left this in someone elses hands to be taken care of, and then watched knowingly for years while it wasnt is some fucked up shit. Joe Pa just so happens to be the big name and figurehead at Penn St, the point EVERYONE seems to be trying to make is he is responsible as is everyone else who knew. Im not sure how that can be denied in anyway. Theres no fucking reason to think that Joe Pa and many others couldnt have or shouldnt have done more.

 

[EmpireWF]

Board of Trustees released a statement...

"The Board of Trustees of The Pennsylvania State University is outraged by the horrifying details contained in the Grand Jury Report," a statement issued Tuesday night by the board said. "As parents, alumni and members of the Penn State Community, our hearts go out to all of those impacted by these terrible events, especially the tragedies involving children and their families. We cannot begin to express the combination of sorrow and anger that we feel about the allegations surrounding Jerry Sandusky. We hear those of you who feel betrayed and we want to assure all of you that the Board will take swift, decisive action."

They're going to have a panel investigate.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...lions-name-committee-review-sex-abuse-scandal

 

[Prodigal Son]

So, if it's found that PSU had actually covered this up to such a certain extent, should the football program itself be punished as well?

 

[NAHSTE]

So, if it's found that PSU had actually covered this up to such a certain extent, should the football program itself be punished as well?

If this isn't "lack of institutional control" what is?

 

[Diivox]

As far as 2002, he reported an incident that really was all hearsay. Again, I have no problem with this either. I wouldnt have called the police myself,

You know what man? I have a problem with this. I get that you don't ever come off of your points. I've been around the MM community since 2004, and we've mixed it up in the chatbox once or twice. I am not a stranger to your posts, even if most people are a stranger to mine. It wasnt until the pond got alot smaller that I bothered to post more. You cannot be argued with, you won't ever say something like "you know what? you're right. I was wrong. I appreciate the conversation." You are just going to keep arguing because that's who you are. I get that.

But I have a serious problem with the bolded section. this is sexual abuse. the GA came to Paterno and said he saw a kid being assraped (unless he was lying to the grand jury, which i guess is a posibility, but that would basically say that everyone else who said a word to the grand jury was lying too, which I seriously doubt). That is a huge problem. This isn't about relationships, or what we know, or what we don't know. If you want to play Devil's Advocate, then come right out and say it.


If you, or anyone else reading this thread, has even the slighest idea that sexual abuse is taking place against anyone, call the fucking cops. Get off this forum, and grab your phone, and call the police, right now.

It shouldn't have been about what the AD, GA, DA, FA, SA, WhateverthefuckelseA did with it, Paterno should have called the cops. black and white. No more information necessary.

So if you are arguing to argue, then come right out and say it, but sexual abuse is the worst fucking thing in the world, sticking your cock up a little boy or girls ass destroys them for the rest of their lives, and this didn't come from some random ass dude off the street, this came from a kid who was JoePa's quarterback and trusted enough to become an assistant after his playing days were done.

You crossed the point of being ludicrous several pages ago, and my own sense of moral compass and decency wants to beleive that you are just arguing on a forum. but to say that you wouldnt report potential sexual abuse to a police officer is beyond comprehension. There is NO ARGUMENT that JoePa had multiple reports of sexual abuse and didn't take it seriously enough. regardless of everything you are holding judgment for, that doesn't change this.

let's break it down even further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacies

Denying the antecedent

Denying the antecedent: draws a conclusion from premises that do not support that conclusion.
Example

Argument: If it is raining outside, it must be cloudy. It is not raining outside. Therefore, it is not cloudy.
Problem: There does not have to be rain in order for there to be clouds.

----------

Your terms, from this theead:

Argument: If Paterno's relationship with Sandusky was cold, it was OK for him not to call the cops. Paterno's relationship with Sandusky was cold, therefore, it's ok he didn't report sexual abuse of a child to the police.
Problem: Paterno's relationship with Sandusky has nothing to do with him calling the police to report a potential sexual assault.

Bottom line:

PATERNO SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE COPS.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Playing "devils advocate" in this situation is quite disturbing to me aswell, I know some of you guys are hard headed on your stances but some of the shit in this thread is beyond comprehension on the ignorance scale. Just mind boggling to me that any of you think that its ok for anyone to have turned a blind eye to any of this. Absolutely mind boggling..

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I have explained multiple times in this thread why I personally would not have called the cops if someone knocked on my door accusing a friend of this. My reaction would have been to tell whoever knocked on my door to call the cops themselves.

If that makes me a monster, fine. I'm a monster.

 

[NAHSTE]

I have explained multiple times in this thread why I personally would not have called the cops if someone knocked on my door accusing a friend of this. My reaction would have been to tell whoever knocked on my door to call the cops themselves.

If that makes me a monster, fine. I'm a monster.

Let's say that you already knew that this guy might be into this kind of shit, and you also happened to be the most powerful man in the entire town and had the clout to personally prevent further victims from being molested?

What would you do then?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Let's say that you already knew that this guy was into this kind of shit, and you also happened to be the most powerful man in the entire town and had the clout to personally prevent further victims from being molested?

What would you do then?

He already admitted hes a monster. I guess thats enough for me.

:kanye:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Playing "devils advocate" in this situation is quite disturbing to me aswell, I know some of you guys are hard headed on your stances but some of the shit in this thread is beyond comprehension on the ignorance scale. Just mind boggling to me that any of you think that its ok for anyone to have turned a blind eye to any of this. Absolutely mind boggling..

The problem here is most of the people in this thread have difficulty understanding what other people type.

Please quote me saying it's ok to turn a blind eye, or kindly stfu. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

The problem here is most of the people in this thread have difficulty understanding what other people type.

Please quote me saying it's ok to turn a blind eye, or kindly stfu. Don't put words in my mouth.

I dont need to put words in your mouth, look 2 posts back and you said that shit yourself dude. I cant believe how ridiculous you're being here.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I have explained multiple times in this thread why I personally would not have called the cops if someone knocked on my door accusing a friend of this. My reaction would have been to tell whoever knocked on my door to call the cops themselves.

If that makes me a monster, fine. I'm a monster.

To me this most definitely sounds like you're saying its ok to turn a blind eye. When nothing is done you continue to sit around and do nothing about it? You've condoned this now multiple times in this thread. Have you all of a sudden become delusional? Serious question.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Let's say that you already knew that this guy might be into this kind of shit, and you also happened to be the most powerful man in the entire town and had the clout to personally prevent further victims from being molested?

What would you do then?

Are we going to play this game where we come up with scenarios until we get to one where I break?

I'm pretty sure my answer remains the same. I'd advise the person WHO SAW THE FUCKING ACT to call the police. But who knows? People don't live in black & white absolutes. I would need to know all of the variables in play, the relationship dynamics, etc. Quite frankly, no matter how hollier than thou Diivox wants to make himself sound, all of that matters. You are lying to yourself if you say it doesn't, even if you don't realize it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I dont need to put words in your mouth, look 2 posts back and you said that shit yourself dude. I cant believe how ridiculous you're being here.

No, I didn't.

To me this most definitely sounds like you're saying its ok to turn a blind eye. When nothing is done you continue to sit around and do nothing about it? You've condoned this now multiple times in this thread. Have you all of a sudden become delusional? Serious question.

Turning a blind eye is witnessing the act and doing nothing. I think most of you are full of shit when you say that no matter what, under all circumstances, you would run to the fucking phone based on second hand information. That's a pretty serious accusation, no? You can ruin someone's life. AGAIN, THE PERSON WHO SAW IT WITH THEIR OWN EYES should be making that call.

But again, I don't know what I would do in absolutes. I think Paterno should have told McQueary to call the police. I don't know if that's what he did, and neither do you.

 

[NAHSTE]

I don't see any shades of gray in this particular case. Paterno is a state employee and this happened in his locker room (three times), he is obligated IMO to report this.

This was the third time Sandusky was witnessed by a Penn State employee buttsexing a child in a Penn State football facility. THIRD FUCKING TIME. How could Paterno not have known enough to call the cops?

I am not saying Paterno is solely to blame. Red flags should have been raised, oh I don't know, the first fucking time, by anybody who knew of this.

From the witnesses to the administrators, they are all responsible. This is not about what you would do to your friend in a hypothetical, this is about state employees who are being entrusted to care after and oversee children. They should be held responsible for neglect when they allow something like this to happen. Paterno included. It's not solely about him, but he's not absolved from anything either. Fuck and no. He doesn't get to play the ignorance card on this one.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

No, I didn't.



Turning a blind eye is witnessing the act and doing nothing. I think most of you are full of shit when you say that no matter what, under all circumstances, you would run to the fucking phone based on second hand information. That's a pretty serious accusation, no? You can ruin someone's life. AGAIN, THE PERSON WHO SAW IT WITH THEIR OWN EYES should be making that call.

But again, I don't know what I would do in absolutes. I think Paterno should have told McQueary to call the police. I don't know if that's what he did, and neither do you.

This shit is far beyond second hand information, or a one time incident, its been going on for some time and the allegations have been made more then once. Everyone turned a blind eye to so much shit, its completely undeniable. I find it hard to believe that you as a human being could be relayed this info and not have done something about it, but I really shouldnt be considering the way human beings are desensitized to shit. I could not not sit by and let that shit just happen for fucking years. Fucking disgusting..

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't see any shades of gray in this particular case. Paterno is a state employee and this happened in his locker room (three times), he is obligated IMO to report this.

This was the third time Sandusky was witnessed by a Penn State employee buttsexing a child in a Penn State football facility. THIRD FUCKING TIME.

I am not saying Paterno is solely to blame. Red flags should have been raised, oh I don't know, the first fucking time, by anybody who knew of this.

From the witnesses to the administrators, they are all responsible. This is not about what you would do to your friend in a hypothetical, this is about state employees who are being entrusted to care after and oversee children. They should be held responsible for neglect when they allow something like this to happen. Paterno included. It's not solely about him, but he's not absolved from anything either. Fuck and no. He doesn't get to play the ignorance card on this one.

My whole stance all along is we don't know what card he is playing to begin with, because he hasn't spoken on this yet.

According to the grand jury documents, he told the person who was in charge of the campus police (Shultz) directly what McQueary told him. Again, I have no problem with how Paterno handled it UP TO THIS POINT.

Where Paterno is in trouble, to me, is the following few years where Sandusky was hanging around the campus. That's what Paterno needs to answer to in my opinion, and that is where he is hanging himself because I don't see plausible answers for that.

You guys can accuse me of letting him "turn a blind eye", whatever, that's fine, that just means you aren't paying attention to what i'm saying.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This shit is far beyond second hand information, or a one time incident, its been going on for some time and the allegations have been made more then once. Everyone turned a blind eye to so much shit, its completely undeniable. I find it hard to believe that you as a human being could be relayed this info and not have done something about it, but I really shouldnt be considering the way human beings are desensitized to shit. I could not not sit by and let that shit just happen for fucking years. Fucking disgusting..

IMO, he didn't turn a blind eye to that point. He reported it. After that is what I may have a problem with after I hear Paterno explain himself. I doubt he has a plausible explanation, but I think it's fair to let him say what he has to say.

This is going in circles. Serious hindsight issues, too.

 

[dave]

The optics are all wrong for Paterno here. If I see or hear about a co-worker buggering a 10-year-old kid ... and see nothing done about it ... I do something to correct it. Joe Paterno was a big enough figure to do more than just report to a superior.

If I report something like this to a superior and 6 months later, nothing is done, I take the next step. Clearly Paterno was covering for a friend.

Paterno clearly deserves to be fired, assuming Sandusky is guilty of the offence ... and, let's be fair, give Sandusky his day in court.

 

[EmpireWF]

Warner is focused on the more modern things, assuming Paterno knew about situations in 1998 and 2002 and did nothing to prevent Sandusky from being involved with the school and his buildings through this week.

For me, he's lumped in with everyone else whose behavior is questionable at best, criminal at worst.