Saints Defense maintained a Bounty Program

[Rip]

Of course there is a difference between doing your job and trying to hurt someone, but they kind of go hand in hand in contact sports. It's contradictory to say, "go as hard as you and hit him as hard as you can but don't try to hurt him."

That doesn't work in real life, it sounds good theoretically, but it's impossible to do that in a game that is as fast as football where 22 guys are flying all over the field trying to level each other.



You're in denial if you think these guys actually care more about each other than themselves.

I really don't think you see the point.

There's a difference of hitting someone as hard as you can and hitting someone as hard as you can with the intention of hurting them. Injuries naturally happen, same with the occasional helmet to helmet shot, but if you have the intent of hurting someone, it's different. If you get PAID to hurt someone, that's even worse. When it's a collaborative effort to hurt a guy by hitting him after he throws the ball, jumping on the pile, running into him on the ground when there's a fumble, that's the problem. They may not be against the rules, but if you don't see the difference, you're blind. When normal players hurt someone in the play, it's natural. These people are conspiring against players and getting paid for it.

This isn't a pick one or the other scenario, guy. IT's not like "I can't try as hard as I can if I want to injure him" or "I don't care about myself more if I'm not trying to hurt them."

 

[bucky]

That's not what it's about.

-This undermines the NFL's goal of increasing player safety.
-This sends an awful message to it's fans, especially kids. We can all act like tough assholes like VSD loves to do, but in reality the NFL is a product that has various markets...including children.
-This is basically "under the table payments" which is against the Salary Cap rules.
-This contributes to players choosing to violate league rules to intentionally injure players. Who cares about the penalty, the team wants me to break his leg and I'm going to get personal rewards for doing so. Fuck the team, I want money. That's the message here and it's complete shit.


Lets make more stupid comments like "well the fines are bigger than these rewards so they don't matter anyways", then act all naive thinking the players are actually paying out of pocket for these fines. Yes, this bounty system has gone on actively for years with players LOSING MONEY and they continue to do that. Right, NFL players participating in a system that will cost them money...sounds like reality to me.

I'm pretty much good with everything except the bold. Rule changes, stiffer penalties have already changed how players play the game. So I LOL at those saying it won't make a difference. It already has.

Somebody is going to pay the players fines? If a player makes 9M a year and is suspended for half a season, somebody's going to pay him that 4.5 million the player loses? And is somebody going to also do a players suspension for them?

Of course rules changes and stiffer penalties will make a difference. These things have already made a difference in how players play the game.

 

[Bear Pand]

You really can't prove that it motivates guys more to go out and injure other players.

Don't really have to, the intent to motivate guys was there and that's all that really needs to be proven. Whether it actually worked or not is irrelevant but I doubt it had no impact. If the NFL somehow determines that it did work, that'd just be icing on the cake.

Look at some of the teams who have knocked out more Quarterbacks than any other in the last few years; the Giants, Ravens, Steelers. Apparently, they did not have a bounty program in place yet they are knocking out more players than any other team, so how can you say that the bounty program encourages players to injure other players?

Why do you think these two things are related? You can't just look at penalty totals and number of players knocked out. And again, more than anything it's about the intention.

The Colts' defense last year was pathetic and not really capable of knocking out anyone. They'd still be scumbags if they had some under the table bounty for injury system going on.

 

[nwfisch]

Looks like Tailback and Bucky are still missing the point 24 hours later.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

Looks like Tailback and Bucky are still missing the point 24 hours later.

bucky has been missing the point for a few weeks now.

 

[bucky]

Looks like Tailback and Bucky are still missing the point 24 hours later.

How so? Bounty's are unethical, bad PR and the league should implement policies that deter them. How is that missing the point?

Stiffer suspensions and fines for illegal hits to help deter Bounty's. That's missing the point?

 

[jaxjaggywires]

wow...311 posts in here and all I hear is the wind blowing.

Just because it may be have been "part of football culture" in the past doesn't automatically make it ok.

Bounties are bad, m'kay? ...unless we see Boba Fett on the field. Then, they're ok.

 

[nwfisch]

How so? Bounty's are unethical, bad PR and the league should implement policies that deter them. How is that missing the point?

Stiffer suspensions and fines for illegal hits to help deter Bounty's. That's missing the point?

The point is they shouldn't be happening to begin with when players are making millions of dollars, and have lives outside of football. :wildthing:

 

[bucky]

The point is they shouldn't be happening to begin with when players are making millions of dollars, and have lives outside of football. :wildthing:

And how is the point on bounty's (incentives to injury) being missed if it's agreed that it's wrong?

What we are disagreeing on is the effectiveness of Bounty's (how big of an issue is it as far as player health goes), and how do you prevent it.

It think you're really missing the point.

 

[jaxjaggywires]

When you put it in a player's mind that he can get more money under the table for hurting a specific player, he is no longer a football player...he is now a bounty hunter.

In my view, any player who has accepted a bounty in however many years they want to go back, should be kicked out of the league. That will stop it. Any team that has had a bounty system in place with either explicit or implicit consent of the head coach or above, needs to lose (at minimum), their top three picks from this year. Any coach who has set up one of these systems is banned from coaching in the league ever again.

...that will stop it. Zero tolerance. Just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean it needs to happen again.

 

[nwfisch]

And how is the point on bounty's (incentives to injury) being missed if it's agreed that it's wrong?

What we are disagreeing on is the effectiveness of Bounty's (how big of an issue is it as far as player health goes), and how do you prevent it.

It think you're really missing the point.

Um bounties for a player knocking another player out for the game and putting a player on a cart.

Not an issue for player's health at all.

I don't think the NFL can prevent bounties, but it should made aware to the teams that is illegal, and picks, coaches, and cap space should be lost for violating the bounty rules.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

So what side is bucky taking or is it his usual, "let's wait for more details" side?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

So what side is bucky taking or is it his usual, "let's wait for more details" side?

He thinks stiffer fines and penalties for illegal hits will make bounties go away.

Because, I guess, collecting bounties on legal hits is ok.

Not sure why anybody is so worked up over this bounty stuff. Like a couple others have said, if the hits are legal, then who cares.

Illegal hits should be taken care of by the officials and the league.

If they are good, hard, LEGAL hits, what's the big deal?

yeah, I know

 

[DSpydr84]

Why do you guys keep using the idea of football being hard hitting, to downplay bounties? Serious question.

They are mutally exclusive topics, that's where people like Tailback are failing so hard in this thread. Bucky is just burying his head in the sand and thinks fines will stop everything.

I think the point is that football is a violent game. I know people who played just to hit people. Some of the greatest defenders in the game are crazy MFers.

Key word being violent. It is not a contact sport, it's a collision sport.

How often in the locker room would you hear a guy say "I'm gonna knock this guy out" or "I can't wait to hit so-and-so". Well, these guys aren't in high school anymore and they have money to play with, so it turns into a wager.

Is it wrong? I'll be honest with you, if I still played, it'd be a fun little bet. If that makes me crazy, so be it. You have to be crazy to play football. You have to. There's nothing normal about running full speed into a guy that's running full speed at you.

Not speaking to W2B personally, but I think as a whole we are seriously undermining how violent the game is. These are not normal people. These aren't guys who have clean jump shots or a smooth swing. The object of the game is to stop another HUMAN BEING through physical force from taking a ball across your goal-line. No other sport even compares to the amount of violence, or has violence as a main objective of achieving your goal (except fighting).

I'm not saying the NFL should allow it, but again, for more than half the players in the league, the thrill of the game is getting to hit people. It's not juking, not throwing a good ball, it's knocking a guy the fuck out. That is the nature of the sport. Whether the NFL wants that image, it does not matter. Players who play are violent, aggressive dudes. They want to impose their will. I don't think that will ever change, no matter what they try to do to stop it. And quite frankly, I hope it doesn't.

 

[Houston]

People still bringing up football being violent as if it's relevant to anything?

I don't care if it's Golf, Tennis, Football or idiots skating on youtube, anyone in their right mind doesn't want to watch athletes getting injured. Bounty's promote injury...why would any sane person be cool with this?

 

[DSpydr84]

People still bringing up football being violent as if it's relevant to anything?

I don't care if it's Golf, Tennis, Football or idiots skating on youtube, anyone in their right mind doesn't want to watch athletes getting injured. Bounty's promote injury...why would any sane person be cool with this?

It doesn't matter what people want to watch. It's about winning at all costs.

I'd be all for this idea if I was a player. So I guess I'm crazy.

EDIT: I guess to add to my point... if a defensive coordinator identifies a play his opponent likes to run, and he sets up a defense that will be able to see a player crossing the field and he puts one of his guys in position and he tells his guy when they install the play, "I want you to hit this guy so fucking hard that he can't even see straight". How is that any different than a guy talking to one of his teammates saying "if that guy crosses, hurt the MFer".

What's the number one way to stop the option? Beat the shit out of the quarterback and make him either not want to run or make the coach not want to call plays where he runs. Just because it's not called a "bounty" doesn't make it not real. That's why we keep bringing up violence. It's a part of the game. It's not a part of golf or tennis like you mentioned above. People are going to get hit, and people are going to get hurt.

 

[bucky]

Um bounties for a player knocking another player out for the game and putting a player on a cart.

Not an issue for player's health at all.

I don't think the NFL can prevent bounties, but it should made aware to the teams that is illegal, and picks, coaches, and cap space should be lost for violating the bounty rules.

And, give fines and suspensions for illegal hits. Why would anyone get worked up over legal hits? And if a hit is dirty, but somehow legal, change the rules to make that illegal as well.

I don't have a problem with teams being penalized by the NFL for bounties.

I also don't have a problem with teams having incentive pools for good, clean plays (TD's, third down stops, fumbles caused, fumbles recovered, ints, good clean hits, etc).

Or penalty pools for bad plays (dropped passes, fumbles, blown assignments, etc).

You don't think Bounty's will go away. I think you can reduce them by making them ineffective. I still say, who is going to chose to pick up an extra $1000 to be part of a bounty program just to lose hundreds of thousands to millions and miss 3, 8 games or an entire season?

And you didn't answer my question.

 

[bucky]

He thinks stiffer fines and penalties for illegal hits will make bounties go away.
Because, I guess, collecting bounties on legal hits is ok.
yeah, I know

LOL, criticism coming from someone that doesn't understand Innocent until proven guilty really doesn't mean much.

I saw your Braun slander post. How ironic that you are doing in that post what you are accusing Braun of doing, slander. SMH.

 

[Tailback U]

People still bringing up football being violent as if it's relevant to anything?

I don't care if it's Golf, Tennis, Football or idiots skating on youtube, anyone in their right mind doesn't want to watch athletes getting injured. Bounty's promote injury...why would any sane person be cool with this?

This video has 13.5 million hits on youtube.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Y9wt3XkHo"]Huge football hit - YouTube[/ame]

This is college football, where players aren't paid to do anything, yet the entire Auburn sideline is celebrating after the hit like they just won the Super Bowl. Rosegreen, the guy who makes the hit, takes his helmet off and is celebrating like he just killed a lion with his bare hands.

The game is 17-0 in the 3rd quarter. It wasn't close. They hadn't won yet. Reggie Brown is laying there dead and everyone in the stadium is cheering.

Please try to sit there and tell me with a straight face that people don't enjoy watching this shit and being a part of it.

The point is that Junior Rosegreen wasn't paid to go out and injure Reggie Brown. He did that for fun. It's funny to me that some of you seem to think that doing it for money is worse than doing it for fun.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying you are wrong.

Now before you groan me, please try to at least argue my point.

 

[Houston]

"I want you to hit this guy so fucking hard that he can't even see straight". How is that any different than a guy talking to one of his teammates saying "if that guy crosses, hurt the MFer".
What's the number one way to stop the option? Beat the shit out of the quarterback and make him either not want to run or make the coach not want to call plays where he runs. Just because it's not called a "bounty" doesn't make it not real. That's why we keep bringing up violence.

So what's the point of having the bounty's in the first place?:bazookajones: If it makes no difference.