Saints Defense maintained a Bounty Program

[ralaw]

I thought that's what forum discussions were for.

We don't play the game either. We can't change whether bounty's exist or not. We can't do anything about bounty's. We're not Roger Goodel. We're fans, we just go with the flow. How does this thread even exist?

I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I'd say the reason this thread exist (and is so long) is because this is a polarizing topic.

 

[Rayman]

:huh:

As mentioned in my post there were multiple roughing penalties from hits on Favre in that game and $30K in fines levied by the league.

Excerpt from Peter Kings MMQB article this morning-

Well, then I'll pull a Clemens and say I misremembered. :cano:

My mistake.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I'd say the reason this thread exist (and is so long) is because this is a polarizing topic.

please don't get him started, he's going to start babbling about "the functional part of the issue"

 

[bucky]

I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I'd say the reason this thread exist (and is so long) is because this is a polarizing topic.

What I'm saying is that "player safety" and "bounties" are very related to each other.

And as much as Warner hates to hear it, make bounty's functionally ineffective by changing the game rules and punishments. Then bounty's go away because the hits that have a high degree of injury go away. It's all related.

 

[ralaw]

please don't get him started, he's going to start babbling about "the functional part of the issue"

TBH I really don't even know his stance on this topic, because he seems to agree that bounties are a bad thing, which you do as well, yet a major portion of this thread is him accusing you of being a woman for being against them. IDK.

 

[EmpireWF]

Which is what I've been contending since the beginning of this thread.

If you don't want these things to happen, the game has to change. Players are on record saying they'll get up out of a pile and purposely try to re-injure a player who had a previous injury. Players are taught to dive at knees, cut block, and blind-side players. Helmet-to-helmet hits and launching (FINALLY) are being taken care of, but that was almost common practice down the field against receivers. And even with the rules, players continue to do it out of habit.

The NFL is doing what they can to limit these things, but it will never change unless the game does. I firmly believe it.

So what? This isn't about players ON THEIR OWN deciding to go after a guy with a bum arm or a bum leg. It's part of the game and will NEVER change.

As warner, houston and countless others besides myself have been telling you brainiacs for DAYS now facepalm, this is about COACHES and TEAM OFFICIALS PAYING BONUS MONEY WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF INJURING OPPONENTS.

/pleasetellmeyouunderstandthisforallthatisgoodinthisfuckedupworld

 

[bucky]

please don't get him started, he's going to start babbling about "the functional part of the issue"

That's were the substance of the issue is. How it effects things on the field. The NFL image and CBA infractions are more style issues that don't effect the play on the field or player safety.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

What I'm saying is that "player safety" and "bounties" are very related to each other.

And as much as Warner hates to hear it, make bounty's functionally ineffective by changing the game rules and punishments. Then bounty's go away because the hits that have a high degree of injury go away. It's all related.

I don't hate to hear it, I just don't care to hear it. You've repeated this simplistic, obvious rhetoric over and over and over.

You are a strange, strange, person.

 

[bucky]

TBH I really don't even know his stance on this topic, because he seems to agree that bounties are a bad thing, which you do as well, yet a major portion of this thread is him accusing you of being a woman for being against them. IDK.

I'm accusing her of being a woman for twisting people's words and getting focusing on the emotional side of the issue. She being a woman has nothing to do with whether bounties are OK or not, and nothing to do with her being against them.

 

[ralaw]

What I'm saying is that "player safety" and "bounties" are very related to each other.

And as much as Warner hates to hear it, make bounty's functionally ineffective by changing the game rules and punishments. Then bounty's go away because the hits that have a high degree of injury go away. It's all related.

This is a different issue to the thread though. I'd be willing to bet W2B and pretty much anyone with any commonsense would agree with this.

 

[Rayman]

Also, while the money is an issue the real issue is rewarding players for injuring opposing players. I'm sure $100 isn't anything to most NFL players, as the most of them make thousands upon thousands, but the real issue is the culture of boarderline dirty play that Williams created. This culture is a direct punch to the face to the image the NFL is trying to maintain, which is player safety.

The first point, yes. The second point, not so much.

Go listen to that Pierce interview I posted. At one point he flat out says a measly $1000 dollars would not be enough to make him want to hit anyone any harder or try and inflict pain any more than he would already.

He then went on to describe the Giants' gameplan to harm Tom Brady as much as possible, within the rules of the game, in SB XLII. And if he happened to "get hurt", oh well.

The big issues here are the alleged/proven violations of the CBA and the lawsuits Roger Goodell knew were coming.

Troy Aikman was on to something.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

TBH I really don't even know his stance on this topic, because he seems to agree that bounties are a bad thing, which you do as well, yet a major portion of this thread is him accusing you of being a woman for being against them. IDK.

He keeps calling me a woman because he thinks i'm just ranting on bounties without offering solutions.

Meanwhile, his amazing solution to bounties is heavy fines and penalties.

Brilliant! Can't believe the league hasn't thought of that! bucky is changing the world!

 

[DSpydr84]

So what? This isn't about players ON THEIR OWN deciding to go after a guy with a bum arm or a bum leg. It's part of the game and will NEVER change.

As warner, houston and countless others besides myself have been telling you brainiacs for DAYS now facepalm, this is about COACHES and TEAM OFFICIALS PAYING BONUS MONEY WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF INJURING OPPONENTS.

/pleasetellmeyouunderstandthisforallthatisgoodinthisfuckedupworld

I guess the reason I've been dodging this point is because I find it hard to believe that you think money is the problem. I think the bigger issue here is that players are getting hurt, which I'm saying cannot be avoided (and you agree).

I also find it amazing that you so easily brush aside an injury that's from a player deciding to do it on their own, but when there's a side-wager, that's a big deal. So you're cool with me injuring your guys intentionally as long as money doesn't change hands?

 

[bucky]

He keeps calling me a woman because he thinks i'm just ranting on bounties without offering solutions.

Meanwhile, his amazing solution to bounties is heavy fines and penalties.

Brilliant! Can't believe the league hasn't thought of that! bucky is changing the world!

Oh, and I wasn't being a smartass about the "good luck in the tournament". That I really meant.

 

[Aso]

Those hits on Favre were dirty as hell. Can't believe the refs didn't call a few more penalties. He was unnecessarily driven into the ground and had shots taken at his ankle and everything. Those are illegal. Saints got lucky they got away with all that.

 

[bucky]

This is a different issue to the thread though. I'd be willing to bet W2B and pretty much anyone with any commonsense would agree with this.

You're killing me ralaw. I don't want to be trying to irritate you.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I guess the reason I've been dodging this point is because I find it hard to believe that you think money is the problem. I think the bigger issue here is that players are getting hurt, which I'm saying cannot be avoided (and you agree).

I also find it amazing that you so easily brush aside an injury that's from a player deciding to do it on their own, but when there's a side-wager, that's a big deal. So you're cool with me injuring your guys intentionally as long as money doesn't change hands?

I guess my problem is that you and others (TBU) assume that all NFL players are actively trying to injure each other.

I just heard Darren Woodson and Tedy Bruschi talking on SportsCenter about how their intent as players were to hit hard, and if an opponent was injured as a result, that was a byproduct of the game but NOT their intent as defenders. They went on to say that playing with the intent to injure is wrong, and completely unacceptable (and thus, what the Saints were doing is also wrong and unacceptable).

Yes, you will have rogue weirdos like Bart Scott and others who were quoted in this thread, but for the most part, i'll keep listening to articulate, intelligent players like Woodson and Bruschi who know the difference between hard hits and intent to injure, and know how to convey themselves without the ridiculous MURDER DEATH KILL hyperbole of TailbackU.

NFL players are not trying to injure each other. Sorry if that blows up your idealistic vision of what football is, but it's the truth.

 

[Houston]

INB4 Tailback U post another history lesson about ancient Sparta, and how we should still conduct ourselves like gladiators.

 

[EmpireWF]

I also find it amazing that you so easily brush aside an injury that's from a player deciding to do it on their own, but when there's a side-wager, that's a big deal. So you're cool with me injuring your guys intentionally as long as money doesn't change hands?

If Troy Polamalu is playing a game and hammers a receiver crossing the middle, and he gets hurt....it's part of playing in the NFL.

If Flozell Adams is playing and chop blocks a defensive lineman, he's a dirty mfer who deserves to be flagged and fined.

If Ray Lewis sees a runningback during a game limping in and out of the huddle, then proceeds to specifically target his legs with hits...it's football.

If Tony Romo is playing with a busted left hand and defenders are going for the hand, it's football. It's a weakness and will be targeted. Now if after a hit, guys are stomping on the hand or getting him in a wristlock or some shit, that should be penalized.

What changes it for me is when people around the team put specific bounties on injuring players. That's shady in its own right before you even bring up the fact it violates the CBA, skirts the salary cap and potentially opens up the league to lawsuits. Such bounties are not what football is about.

Maybe it's a fine line, but that's the line.

 

[Tailback U]

10 millionth time.

They are out to hurt each other and inflict pain, just like Woodson and Bruschi said.

When you play like that, with that attitude, you are going to injure someone eventually. So in essence, there is no difference, and they are actually trying to injure even if they don't want to admit it or aren't happy about it after the fact.

It's the same fucking thing as Dan Henderson throwing haymakers from hell to knock a guy out and win the fight. I'm sure Dan isn't intentionally trying to put another man in the hospital, but what else is going to happen when he lands a kill shot like that?