Vincent Jackson's 2010 stats

[Warner2BruceTD]

Where do you get this shit from? After four games he had 9 catches. That's a little upward of 2 catches a game. Statistically speaking after 4 games he was on pace for 36 catches. After the first three he was on pace for 48.

Through his first 7 games of the season, he had 21 receptions and 5 TD's. Keep in mind that this includes the NE/MIA game where he wasnt used and had no receptions. He had 10 games remaining, because the Vikings already had a BYE before the trade.

So that's where "I get this shit from". Math. He was on pace for around 50 receptions and 10 TD's before the MIN/NE game.

 

[Aso]

Through his first 7 games of the season, he had 21 receptions and 5 TD's. Keep in mind that this includes the NE/MIA game where he wasnt used and had no receptions. He had 10 games remaining, because the Vikings already had a BYE before the trade.

So that's where "I get this shit from". Math. He was on pace for around 50 receptions and 10 TD's before the MIN/NE game.

Ok, you're right I'm wrong. 50 catches and 10 touchdowns in a 17 game season really shows me he's still an elite receiver.

 

[Juggernaut]

You just hate him so much that you want him to suck. You don't realize that the excuses people are making are legitimate. I have no reason to stand up for Moss, I wouldn't even care if he actually did suck, but the fact is he doesn't. He just doesn't care to play hard right now and he isn't getting that many balls thrown his way. That's a fact not an excuse.

Shouldn't that be used to evaluate the type of player he is? Without just stats but and personality, Jackson is above Moss. There's a reason he's on his 3rd team, its because he's a diva. Jackson only didn't play since the Chargers decided to be Jews for the longest time.

If there is a upgrade from Moss to Jackson, in my opinion, it's marginal and over shadowed by Moss's ability to be a cancer.

 

[ralaw]

Moss is done and people just refuse to accept that. He's not done because he doesn't have the ability, but he's done because his ability can no longer cover for his apathy. In a game where we praise "effort guys" and talk about "respect for the game and teammates" Moss is a joke and he's always been given a pass. As I said he's no longer the super talented productive WR that he once was and the faster people realize that the faster they'll stop making excuses for him. Granted, he may have a gamE here or there when he actually cares and does something of value, but overall he's still just a POS. His display this year has been a slap in the face to everyone involved with the NFL from players, coaches to fans. People should stop living in the past and stop expecting him to "care" enough to be what he once was.

 

[NAHSTE]

Ok, you're right I'm wrong. 50 catches and 10 touchdowns in a 17 game season really shows me he's still an elite receiver.

Just so we're all on the same page, you do realize that Vincent Jackson has never had 10 TDs in a season right? And his seasonal average for receptions is ... 50. (Okay, to be fair, 66 if we throw out the entire 2010 season which he has yet to play in ...)

So what would be Moss's worst season ever, one which would approach Vinny Jack's career average in receptions, and exceed it in touchdowns would not be an elite season, according to you. Wouldn't this mean that Vincent Jackson is not an elite receiver either?

The defense rests.

 

[Tailback U]

See this is the problem I have. Moss makes one highlight reel catch and people think he's had a great game. Something I bet you didn't know. Moss was thrown to 10 times that game and he made a total of 2 catches. That's a fucking horrible game. You catch 20% of the passes thrown your way, really?! And you're suppose to be elite. Well because he made one beautiful one hand grab for a touchdown the rest of that game is completely ignored.

This season he has completely sucked and right now is living off of reputation.

Once again, you are only looking at stats and not actually watching the games.

1. You don't know how many of those 10 passes were even catchable.

2. You don't know what type of coverage Moss had on him when he was targeted.

3. You don't know how many of those were dropped.

4. You don't know how many of those were broken up by a CB who maybe just made a great play on it.

5. You don't know how many of those balls were just thrown overthrown deep to him because the QB ran out of time.

You obviously aren't watching him play week in and week out and you continue to base your assumption of him off stats and percentages.

If you had been watching him this season, you'd see that he is only being used as a deep threat to stretch defenses. He hardly ever goes over the middle. He is constantly facing double teams and quarterbacks are not going to just throw it up to him in double coverage when he is opening up things for other receivers.

Do you know how many seasons Randy Moss has led his team in receptions over the last 12 years?

Twice. Guess why that is.

Let's not forget who he has had throwing balls to him, what type of offenses he's been in since leaving New England, and that it's not easy to just step right into a brand new offense and understand everything. Brett Favre, Vince Young, Kerry Collins, and Rusty Smith aren't exactly Phillip Rivers or Tom Brady.

If you can't see the challenges of all of this then I don't know what to tell you. You can dismiss all of this as an excuse if you want to, but I'd hope that you are intelligent enough to understand that these are legitimate challenges that any receiver would have difficulty in overcoming.

I'll agree that his attitude and effort are piss poor. But to say that he's a shitty receiver that sucks ass is foolish, especially given the fact that teams continue to trade for him and sign him despite knowing about his baggage. If NFL coaches and coordinators are starting this guy and doubling him week in and week out, and I think they know a little more than you about football, I'd guess the guy isn't as shitty as you think.

 

[Aso]

Once again, you are only looking at stats and not actually watching the games.

1. You don't know how many of those 10 passes were even catchable.

2. You don't know what type of coverage Moss had on him when he was targeted.

3. You don't know how many of those were dropped.

4. You don't know how many of those were broken up by a CB who maybe just made a great play on it.

5. You don't know how many of those balls were just thrown overthrown deep to him because the QB ran out of time.

Now this is a whole lot of excuses for Moss. I do know of those 8 incompletions 2 were intercepted and 1 Moss dropped.

1. Tom Brady was his QB I'm more than 2 of them were catchable.

2. Elite receivers beat bracket coverages most of the time, Moss didn't.

3. One of them was dropped and that dropped pass fell right into the hands of a defender for an interception. That doesn't help your argument, it helps mine.

4. If Moss is great he'll beat the corner to the ball and make the catch, that doesn't help your argument. He got shut down by Revis and Cromartie and because they made great plays on the ball Moss is still elite? I don't understand what you're getting at with this one.

5. Again it's Tom Brady, some weeks Brady doesn't even throw 8 incompletions. Of his 16 that games half of his incompletions were to Moss, both of his interceptions were when throwing to Moss. How inaccurate do you think Brady is?

I'll give you that one interception was a slight overthrow and went right into the hands of Cromartie but guess what, that was single coverage and no help. Cromartie had him blanketed.

You obviously aren't watching him play week in and week out and you continue to base your assumption of him off stats and percentages.

If you had been watching him this season, you'd see that he is only being used as a deep threat to stretch defenses. He hardly ever goes over the middle. He is constantly facing double teams and quarterbacks are not going to just throw it up to him in double coverage when he is opening up things for other receivers.

I am actually, watching him. In our previous thread you did absolutely nothing but compare their '09 seasons and disregarded anything that wasn't straight stats. If anything you are the one not watching him.

Let's not forget who he has had throwing balls to him, what type of offenses he's been in since leaving New England, and that it's not easy to just step right into a brand new offense and understand everything. Brett Favre, Vince Young, Kerry Collins, and Rusty Smith aren't exactly Phillip Rivers or Tom Brady.

If you can't see the challenges of all of this then I don't know what to tell you. You can dismiss all of this as an excuse if you want to, but I'd hope that you are intelligent enough to understand that these are legitimate challenges that any receiver would have difficulty in overcoming.

I'll agree he's obviously not gonna do what he did exactly in '09 and '07 and so on in those constant changing circumstances, but guess what... He had a week to learn the offense on a bye week and in 2 games has made 1 catch.

If you can't see that an elite receiver would still perform better than what he has even under these circumstances then I don't know what to tell you. As much as these are challenges it's not enough of a challenge to dismiss the fact he's had 1 catch in 2 games.

I'll agree that his attitude and effort are piss poor. But to say that he's a shitty receiver that sucks ass is foolish, especially given the fact that teams continue to trade for him and sign him despite knowing about his baggage. If NFL coaches and coordinators are starting this guy and doubling him week in and week out, and I think they know a little more than you about football, I'd guess the guy isn't as shitty as you think.

One team traded for him and released him a month later, then on the waiver wire list 1 team out of 32 put in a claim. You act like everyone in the NFL wants Moss and everyone acts like it's 1998. If NFL coaches and management are getting rid of this guy so quickly and then completely avoiding him obviously a lot of people are seeing what I am. If NFL coaches and coordinators are shutting this guy down week in and week out like he's Michael Clayton then, I'd guess this guy isn't as great as you think.

 

[Aso]

Just so we're all on the same page, you do realize that Vincent Jackson has never had 10 TDs in a season right? And his seasonal average for receptions is ... 50. (Okay, to be fair, 66 if we throw out the entire 2010 season which he has yet to play in ...)

So what would be Moss's worst season ever, one which would approach Vinny Jack's career average in receptions, and exceed it in touchdowns would not be an elite season, according to you. Wouldn't this mean that Vincent Jackson is not an elite receiver either?

The defense rests.

Vincent Jackson just broke out last season which I was only ever comparing his '09 season. Last season he had 68 receptions for 1,167 yards and 9 touchdowns in the 15 games he started.

If he would've kept up what he was doing if he kept up his production from week 1 to week 7, sure he would've had 51 catches on a 17 game season compared to Jackson's 68 on a 15 game season. Moss gets 2 more games, 17 less catches, and btw at that point he was on pace for 740 yards on a 17 game season. How is that even close to what Jackson was doing? He plays 2 more games, gets more than 400 less yards, 17 less catches and he's right up to par with what Jackson was doing right? Wrong.
:banghead:

So let's compare:

In 17 games, 51 catches, 740 yards, 10 touchdowns vs. In 15 games, 68 catches, 1,167 yards, 9 touchdowns.

Ehh, about even right. Moss has more touchdowns and that's it.

 

[NAHSTE]

Vincent Jackson just broke out last season which I was only ever comparing his '09 season. Last season he had 68 receptions for 1,167 yards and 9 touchdowns in the 15 games he started.

If he would've kept up what he was doing if he kept up his production from week 1 to week 7, sure he would've had 51 catches on a 17 game season compared to Jackson's 68 on a 15 game season. Moss gets 2 more games, 17 less catches, and btw at that point he was on pace for 740 yards on a 17 game season. How is that even close to what Jackson was doing? He plays 2 more games, gets more than 400 less yards, 17 less catches and he's right up to par with what Jackson was doing right? Wrong.
:banghead:

Jackson has been doing nothing though. 51 catches and 10 TDs in a down year >>>>> career high of 68 and 10, and season totals of zero...

 

[Aso]

Jackson has been doing nothing though. 51 catches and 10 TDs in a down year >>>>> career high of 68 and 10, and season totals of zero...

You say you can't compare a season where he's not playing yet you bring up zero catches like that's relevant as to why he's worse than Moss. Like I've said before. I'd rather have the absence of both of them, than to have Moss on my team this year.

And if you're gonna post those numbers without mentioning the number of games let's add another 140 yards, 10 catches, and 1 touchdown to Jackson's season because on average that's what he would've added had he played in two more games. So now that we've got Jackson had he played 17 games in '09 to Moss had he played 17 games under that same production this year:

51 catches, 740 yards, 10 touchdowns vs. 78 catches, 1,301 yards, 10 touchdowns.

Hmm... which one is better

 

[NAHSTE]

Oh, we're making up stats now? This is fun.

 

[Aso]

Oh, we're making up stats now? This is fun.

You weren't saying that when it was, 'Oh around 50 catches and 10 touchdowns is right at Jackson's career average.' Now you're being a hypocrit because you know you're wrong. That is simply Jackson's averages in '09 compared to Moss' from weeks 1-7 in '10 for playing the same amount of games. Do you wanna go back to 'But he's played for 3 teams this season, so many different QB's, you can't learn a playbook so quickly, he's just not motivated this year but still good' arguments?

Moss is having an absolutely horrendous season. You can't even argue it.

EDIT: Oh my bad, In '09 Jackson averaged 77.8 yards per game. That's 155 yards that should be added to his total not 140. So he would've had 1,316 yards not 1,301. Silly me...

 

[Tailback U]

Did you guys see Vincent Jackson tear the fucking Colts apart tonight?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I saw this stat today before the Titans game.

Chris Johnson ypc before Moss : 4.1
Chris Johnson ypc since aquiring Moss: 6.8

I don't know if it means anything, but its interesting. If Moss is occupying the attention of a CB and a S, obvioulsy that would help the run game. Who knows.

I wonder what the NE lead back (whoever it is this week) and Peterson's numbers look like pre and post Moss.

 

[Champ]

I saw this stat today before the Titans game.

Chris Johnson ypc before Moss : 4.1
Chris Johnson ypc since aquiring Moss: 6.8

I don't know if it means anything, but its interesting. If Moss is occupying the attention of a CB and a S, obvioulsy that would help the run game. Who knows.

I wonder what the NE lead back (whoever it is this week) and Peterson's numbers look like pre and post Moss.

Im pretty sure there are other factors in why CJ was getting more yards per carry. But how about yesterdays game? He rushed 7 times for 5 yards. Im not going to do the math but that doesnt seem like 6.8 yards per carry.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Im pretty sure there are other factors in why CJ was getting more yards per carry. But how about yesterdays game? He rushed 7 times for 5 yards. Im not going to do the math but that doesnt seem like 6.8 yards per carry.

The stat was from before the game. CBS made a big deal out of it.

Anyway, if you add in those 7 carries for 5 yards from today, it probably balances out.

 

[Aso]

Did you guys see Vincent Jackson tear the fucking Colts apart tonight?

He didn't even start, Legedu Naane and Malcom Floyd did and in the limited snaps he had he got injured. All that means is maybe he's out of shape. Doesn't mean he's any better or worse than he was before yesterdays game.

 

[Woy]

I saw this stat today before the Titans game.

Chris Johnson ypc before Moss : 4.1
Chris Johnson ypc since aquiring Moss: 6.8

I don't know if it means anything, but its interesting. If Moss is occupying the attention of a CB and a S, obvioulsy that would help the run game. Who knows.

I wonder what the NE lead back (whoever it is this week) and Peterson's numbers look like pre and post Moss.

Yeah you could tell that there were less times with 8-9 men in the box with Moss on the outside and Young under center. Now with Rusty Trombone Smith under center, they're going to have 8 or 9 in the box almost every play and force Smith to beat them through the air.

Not to mention the offensive line has been meh at best the entire year...they let Amobi Okoye break through to CJ multiple times and hit him in the backfield. Yesterday was just a horrendous performance by everyone in the Titans organization.

 

[NAHSTE]

He didn't even start, Legedu Naane and Malcom Floyd did and in the limited snaps he had he got injured. All that means is maybe he's out of shape. Doesn't mean he's any better or worse than he was before yesterdays game.

So he can't even beat out Legedu Naane and Malcolm Floyd for playing time? Yeah, he's definitely better than that bum Randy Moss.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah you could tell that there were less times with 8-9 men in the box with Moss on the outside and Young under center.

This is the kind of informantion I was looking for. It would be nice if CBS would do more than just slap a stat on the screen for 3 seconds, and expand on something, but we live in an age of drive by sports coverage so that's expecting too much. They probably had to make sure something important like the fantasy ticker was on the screen.

Now with Rusty Trombone Smith under center, they're going to have 8 or 9 in the box almost every play and force Smith to beat them through the air.

This makes sense.

If I have time later, i'm going to take a look at the NE and MIN running games with and without Moss. Maybe there is something to this.