Vincent Jackson's 2010 stats

[Aso]

So he can't even beat out Legedu Naane and Malcolm Floyd for playing time? Yeah, he's definitely better than that bum Randy Moss.

No... it was his first game back from a holdout and suspension. I'm guessing they wanted to ease him back into the starting lineup. You can't honestly think Naane was starting over Jackson because he's better.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

No... it was his first game back from a holdout and suspension. I'm guessing they wanted to ease him back into the starting lineup. You can't honestly think Naane was starting over Jackson because he's better.

I think Jackson is probably better than some of those Charger WR's, but the gap isn't very big. That team has played the same exact style, and hasn't lose a step without Jackson. He's not nearly as good as people think, something i've been saying for two years. He's just a guy, like the rest of SD's WR's.

 

[ralaw]

No... it was his first game back from a holdout and suspension. I'm guessing they wanted to ease him back into the starting lineup. You can't honestly think Naane was starting over Jackson because he's better.

Jackson actually got hurt or something.

 

[Aso]

I think Jackson is probably better than some of those Charger WR's, but the gap isn't very big. That team has played the same exact style, and hasn't lose a step without Jackson. He's not nearly as good as people think, something i've been saying for two years. He's just a guy, like the rest of SD's WR's.

They put up 35 points on the Broncos without Antonio Gates. Doesn't mean Antonio Gates is no good. The Chargers have a lot of good guys. Jackson is good, Floyd isn't too far behind him, Antonio Gates is the best receiving TE in the league. Naane is a decent slot guy, Ajirotutu off the practice squad is a decent deep threat. They can adjust their offense to the guys they have, and they have a lot of good players on offense along with possibly an MVP quarterback.

On the opposite side with the same logic, the Patriots haven't lost a step without Randy Moss. In fact they are averaging more points per game this year than they were last year (almost 4 more points per game).

I think the "they haven't lost a step without him" is a horrible argument to make on why someone isn't good.

 

[NAHSTE]

No... it was his first game back from a holdout and suspension. I'm guessing they wanted to ease him back into the starting lineup. You can't honestly think Naane was starting over Jackson because he's better.

Sooo ... Moss gets knocked for his off field behavior and lack of motivation ... But Vincent Jackson can be out of shape and an equally poor locker room guy, put up worse stats ... and you STILL refuse to concede this one?

Poor form. Just save whatever face you have left and admit you are wrong.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

That was one game without Gates, they havent had Jackson all season.

When Gates doesnt play, TE becomes a non factor in the offense, when Jackson doesn't play, they just plug in a guy with a name you can't pronounce, and get the same results.

Is Jackson really that much better than a guy like Floyd? These are average to slightly above average starting WR's.

 

[ralaw]

Forgive me for asking, but when did Jackson become a "poor locker room guy"? I ask because I honestly don't recall anything happening. I understand that he held out most of the season, but I hope that isn't the reason people have given him this label.

 

[Aso]

Jackson actually got hurt or something.

I know, I said that earlier but before he got injured they started the game with Legedu Naane and Malcom Floyd. I didn't see when he got injured because I was watching Dexter at the time but I did read he was on the field for only three plays before the injury.

 

[NAHSTE]

Forgive me for asking, but when did Jackson become a "poor locker room guy"? I ask because I honestly don't recall anything happening. I understand that he held out most of the season, but I hope that isn't the reason people have given him this label.

Poor locker room guy might be too strong of a phrase, but I just feel it's worth mentioning that this guy hasn't played a down all year BECAUSE HE INITIALLY REFUSED TO.

If Aso is going to knock Moss for not playing hard, at least knock Vincent Jackson for not playing at all.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Jackson willing chose not to play, plus he's an off the field headache.

 

[ralaw]

Poor locker room guy might be too strong of a phrase, but I just feel it's worth mentioning that this guy hasn't played a down all year BECAUSE HE INITIALLY REFUSED TO.

If Aso is going to knock Moss for not playing hard, at least knock Vincent Jackson for not playing at all.

Jackson willing chose not to play, plus he's an off the field headache.

Its funny how you guys simplify it to seem as if Jackson just decided he didn't want to play for no apparent reason, as if he's sitting at home playing video games due to apathy (as it appears Moss should be doing). Holdouts are part of the sport.

IMO those are different circumstances. Players do what they feel is best for themselves long term and their teammates generally respect that. Jackson's holdout as with any other player is just a part of the sport. On the otherhand Moss just no longer cares and is living off his reputation from his glory days......he just doesn't care and given the fact that he's in the last year of his contract its even more telling of how apathetic he's become.

 

[Aso]

Sooo ... Moss gets knocked for his off field behavior and lack of motivation ... But Vincent Jackson can be out of shape and an equally poor locker room guy, put up worse stats ... and you STILL refuse to concede this one?

Poor form. Just save whatever face you have left and admit you are wrong.

To say Jackson put up "worse" stats as a way of saying that he is worse is pathetic. He was in for three plays. For as many plays Moss has been in he has 4 catches in three games. Jackson played as many snaps vs the Colts as Moss had catches against the Texans.

Now he obviously wasn't conditioned and you can put that as a knock on Jackson. But Moss' lack of interest is a much bigger knock IMO.

And like ralaw said, when did Jackson become such as a "poor locker room guy"? He wanted more money and held out. That has nothing to do with his behavior in the locker room and NFL players know the NFL is a business and to stay out of other players contractual business. Unless he did something else I missed then he is obviously not a "poor locker room guy".

 

[NAHSTE]

Its funny how you guys simplify it to seem as if Jackson just decided he didn't want to play for no apparent reason, as if he's sitting at home contemplating retirement, due to apathy (as it appears Moss should be doing). Holdouts are part of the sport.

IMO those are different circumstances. Players do what they feel is best for themselves long term and their teammates generally respect that. Jackson's holdout as with any other player is just a part of the sport. On the otherhand Moss is just no longer cares and is living off his reputation from his glory days......he just doesn't care and given the fact that he's in the last year of his contract its even more telling of how apathetic he's become.

Fair enough, and I normally do side with the athletes in a holdout scenario, but if someone has put up 0 catches and 0 yards all season for reasons within their control, I'm going to judge them for it. Especially when directly comparing them to a future HOFer who is currently stuck in a terrible situation.

Moss when motivated >>>>>>>>>>>> Vincent Jackson
Moss when not motivated = Vincent Jackson
Moss when not motivated > Inactive Vincent Jackson

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Its funny how you guys simplify it to seem as if Jackson just decided he didn't want to play for no apparent reason, as if holdouts aren't a part of the sport.

IMO those are different circumstances. Players do what they feel is best for themselves long term and their teammates generally respect that. Jackson's holdout as with any other player is just a part of the sport. On the otherhand Moss is just no longer cares and is living off his reputation from his glory days......he just doesn't care and given the fact that he's in the last year of his contract its even more telling of how apathetic he's become.

Besides refusing to sign a $3-$4M dollar tender, and then negotiating off of that tender while going to work, let's not forget that Jackson has two DUI's and was suspended by the league 3 games as well.

This was not your garden variety hold out, the guy didn't play until Week 12 despite $4M on the table, and is one more substance abuse violation from a very long suspension. He's a problem player.

 

[NAHSTE]

Besides refusing to sign a $3-$4M dollar tender, and then negotiating off of that tender while going to work, let's not forget that Jackson has two DUI's and was suspended by the league 3 games as well.

This was not your garden variety hold out, the guy didn't play until Week 12 despite $4M on the table, and is one more substance abuse violation from a very long suspension. He's a problem player.

But, but, but ... Moss quit on RUSTY SMITH! He is letting down the franchise he just joined, and the 52 guys in the locker room he just met two weeks ago!

Forgive me for not sympathizing with a player who refused to play for one of the league's best teams. And also forgive me for sympathizing with a player who has been on 3 teams in 2 months, 2 of which have terrible QBs.

Moss's numbers are irrelevant at this point, because he's playing with fucking Rusty Smith. This is a lost season.

But guess what? It's still better than anything Vincent Jackson has done all season. And had Moss stayed in New England, his "half-assed" numbers would have equaled Vincent Jackson's career averages. So basically, by not trying, Moss managed to give the Patriots Vincent Jackson type of production. That got him traded.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And unlike NAHSTE, I generally DON NOT side with labor in contract disputes. But, Jackson had $4M on the table for this year and chose to walk away. As a fan, that's insulting. He wasn't staring at league minimum or some garbo rookie deal. He's a greedy malcontent, and if you asked his teammates privately, i'm sure you would find a few who think he fucked them.

Not to mention the DUI suspension. He's a headcase, and his production isnt worth the trouble.

 

[ralaw]

Fair enough, and I normally do side with the athletes in a holdout scenario, but if someone has put up 0 catches and 0 yards all season for reasons within their control, I'm going to judge them for it. Especially when directly comparing them to a future HOFer who is currently stuck in a terrible situation.

Moss when motivated >>>>>>>>>>>> Vincent Jackson
Moss when not motivated = Vincent Jackson
Moss when not motivated > Inactive Vincent Jackson

That's the sad part about this entire situation. When is Moss been motivated this year? That's my issue with him and this year he obviously either hasn't been motivated or he no longer has it. I have to believe that if he still had it and was an elite WR he's be playing a lot better. He wasn't motivated with Brady, wasn't motivated with Favre and now has Rusty Smith throwing him the ball.........he's stuck in a terrible situation, because of his own doing.

Besides refusing to sign a $3-$4M dollar tender, and then negotiating off of that tender while going to work, let's not forget that Jackson has two DUI's and was suspended by the league 3 games as well.

This was not your garden variety hold out, the guy didn't play until Week 12 despite $4M on the table, and is one more substance abuse violation from a very long suspension. He's a problem player.

Meh, all of the contract mess is a part of the business, so I don't see how anyone holds that against him to label him a "poor locker room guy". As for the DUI he has some personal issues and becaue of that could be labeled a "problem player," but that is far different from your "poor locker room guy" label I've seen trown around in this thread.

Either way, I'd take an out of shape Jackson who is one screw up from a year suspension over Randy Moss who just doesn't care anymore.

 

[bucky]

I saw this stat today before the Titans game.

Chris Johnson ypc before Moss : 4.1
Chris Johnson ypc since aquiring Moss: 6.8

I don't know if it means anything, but its interesting. If Moss is occupying the attention of a CB and a S, obvioulsy that would help the run game. Who knows.

I wonder what the NE lead back (whoever it is this week) and Peterson's numbers look like pre and post Moss.

Titans 0-N wins with Moss. N is total number of games Moss has played with Titans.

 

[bucky]

The stat was from before the game. CBS made a big deal out of it.

Anyway, if you add in those 7 carries for 5 yards from today, it probably balances out.

So you conveniently leave out this game? Really?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

So you conveniently leave out this game? Really?

I didn't leave anything out.

Maybe you missed the part where I said....

The stat was from before the game. CBS made a big deal out of it.

Anyway, if you add in those 7 carries for 5 yards from today, it probably balances out.

....despite the fact that you quoted it.